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I don't know what kinds of Aikido you guys have been taught, but the kind I am learning is completely based on "feeling" the opponents movements, and moving with them and redirecting them with almost no effort. It is like you are water. The punch, you effortlessly redirect their energy.
Here is why Aikido is the most complex art.
Aikido is the EXACT OPPOSITE of most martial arts. In my art, Shaoling Kempo, you are taught a punch or a kick, you do it a thousand times, and you are capable of taking someone down with it when they move in to attack. With Aikido, you are told to just relax (something I am not accustomed to in my art) and "feel" the opponents energy. A true master of Aikido doesn't have to tense a muscle to defeat the enemy. You aren't taught ANY moves that can hurt an opponent badly, except a last resort palm strike. The reason it is so difficult for us is because it is our natural tendency to do the opposite of what Aikido is.
I'd be willing to bet that a person that has no martial arts experience would grasp Aikido faster than a well trained karate/tae kwon do/ fill in the blank practitioner.
I don't know what kinds of Aikido you guys have been taught, but the kind I am learning is completely based on "feeling" the opponents movements, and moving with them and redirecting them with almost no effort. It is like you are water. The punch, you effortlessly redirect their energy.
Here is why Aikido is the most complex art.
Aikido is the EXACT OPPOSITE of most martial arts. In my art, Shaoling Kempo, you are taught a punch or a kick, you do it a thousand times, and you are capable of taking someone down with it when they move in to attack. With Aikido, you are told to just relax (something I am not accustomed to in my art) and "feel" the opponents energy. A true master of Aikido doesn't have to tense a muscle to defeat the enemy. You aren't taught ANY moves that can hurt an opponent badly, except a last resort palm strike. The reason it is so difficult for us is because it is our natural tendency to do the opposite of what Aikido is.
I'd be willing to bet that a person that has no martial arts experience would grasp Aikido faster than a well trained karate/tae kwon do/ fill in the blank practitioner.
I can somewhat agree. However, I have known many Aikidoists fail when such a opponent strives not to be "felt".....
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
And I've known many aikidoka who (naturally) used plenty of muscle and put lots of hurt on people when they wanted to. Real aikido training, in my experience, is not the Happy Hippy Feelgood Hour that it has all too often become in many places.
And I've known many aikidoka who (naturally) used plenty of muscle and put lots of hurt on people when they wanted to. Real aikido training, in my experience, is not the Happy Hippy Feelgood Hour that it has all too often become in many places.
Indeed...but it isnt so much on mystical....
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
And I've known many aikidoka who (naturally) used plenty of muscle and put lots of hurt on people when they wanted to. Real aikido training, in my experience, is not the Happy Hippy Feelgood Hour that it has all too often become in many places.
Happy Hippie Feel Good Hour, as you put it, is exactly what the founder intended. He wanted a way to defend himself without bringing harm to another person. That is what the art is supposed to be about. The aikidoists you are referring to are the majority, that didn't follow the founders teachings, and just implemented harmful manuevers into aikido techniques.
Note that I am not attached to aikido, nor am I defending it, I actually prefer karate and kung fu over aikido. I do however, know the short history of aikido, and what the founders intentions were in founding it.
As I stated earlier, many people, including myself, developed aikido to there own tastes, and that usually involves the grappling motion, followed by a kick or a punch. Aikido practitioners (at least authentic ones) are not taught any strike except for the last resort palm strike.
Aikido is the EXACT OPPOSITE of most martial arts. In my art, Shaoling Kempo, you are taught a punch or a kick, you do it a thousand times, and you are capable of taking someone down with it when they move in to attack. With Aikido, you are told to just relax (something I am not accustomed to in my art) and "feel" the opponents energy. A true master of Aikido doesn't have to tense a muscle to defeat the enemy. You aren't taught ANY moves that can hurt an opponent badly, except a last resort palm strike. The reason it is so difficult for us is because it is our natural tendency to do the opposite of what Aikido is.
Well, If you're Relaxed your body works better... Which then means you can throw more Punches And Kicks faster and more accurate...
It's a Scientific Fact...
__________________
JoaNor
Japanese "CowBoys": "Yee Haw, Rope 'em Dawggies" - 47MartialMan
White, Yellow, Orange, Pink, Green, Purple, Blue, Brown, Red, Black - 1st Dan, Black - 2nd Dan
Happy Hippie Feel Good Hour, as you put it, is exactly what the founder intended.
This is how the Happy Hippies distort things. Ueshiba was a hard fightin' man who saw his share of war. What he meant by 'no harm' and what the Happy Hippies think of are two separate things.
This is how the Happy Hippies distort things. Ueshiba was a hard fightin' man who saw his share of war. What he meant by 'no harm' and what the Happy Hippies think of are two separate things.
And is there a reference for the Happy Hippie feel good philosophy? The fact that Ueshiba had seen war, is exactly why aikido is non-violent. People who had lead, lead or have seen real violence often shun violence as a whole, Ueshiba was no exception he understood that violence was an evil but at times it was a necessary evil, thus aikido's philosophic aspects which is why its called aikido and not aikijutsu the -do is often a reference to Taoist influence but has come to mean any philosophic or religious truth that is taught through the practice of such systems. The same was true of kodokan judo.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
This is how the Happy Hippies distort things. Ueshiba was a hard fightin' man who saw his share of war. What he meant by 'no harm' and what the Happy Hippies think of are two separate things.
Well I don't know what kind of Aikidoists you know, but the ones I train with aren't happy hippies, but they do not want to harm anyone and that is why they train in Aikido versus something else.
And is there a reference for the Happy Hippie feel good philosophy? The fact that Ueshiba had seen war, is exactly why aikido is non-violent. People who had lead, lead or have seen real violence often shun violence as a whole, Ueshiba was no exception he understood that violence was an evil but at times it was a necessary evil, thus aikido's philosophic aspects which is why its called aikido and not aikijutsu the -do is often a reference to Taoist influence but has come to mean any philosophic or religious truth that is taught through the practice of such systems. The same was true of kodokan judo.
Well I don't know what kind of Aikidoists you know.
The aikidoka I trained with for a year or so in Toyokawa, Japan were certainly not HHs, and the master of the dojo trained under Ueshiba, and later his son, so I think he had a pretty good idea what was up.
The aikidoka I trained with for a year or so in Toyokawa, Japan were certainly not HHs, and the master of the dojo trained under Ueshiba, and later his son, so I think he had a pretty good idea what was up.
The training was physical, rough, and demanding. It was not for the faint of heart as it has been sold in the 'west' as some kind of effortless excuse to wear funny pants. The 'without harming' means 'not killing' but certainly not without discomfort.
The understanding I have had of the founding of Aikido is that it was based on the idea of "Violence begets violence." An idea that a 'hard fighting man' would be all to familiar with. As a result he strove to collect a set of techniques that would not resist a person's strikes and stop them, but rather continue the person's strikes beyond the intended point. So, Aikido does not have strikes (in comparison to something like Combat Hapkido) but does involve a lot of joint manipulation intended to "end the cycle of violence." Discomfort (PC term for pain) leading to control of the situation instead of furthering the chaos of the situation.
The training was physical, rough, and demanding. It was not for the faint of heart as it has been sold in the 'west' as some kind of effortless excuse to wear funny pants. The 'without harming' means 'not killing' but certainly not without discomfort.
Yes, but it also meant without injuring not just killing. Of course as you pointed out Ueshiba had seen combat so to him, a black eye or bruise wasn't much of an injury compared with a broken arm. As a friend of mine pointed out, a shodan in Aikido BTW, allot of aikido is all about pain compliance and several hold stretch tendons and ligaments to cause pain were they could easily dislocate a shoulder or bust an elbow.
An interesting thing about aikido against untrained fighters is that many untrained fighters have no ukemi skills and instead of the effortless throw & roll seen in aikido demonstations they end up on their face and sliding across the pavement. So my injury I always figure Ueshiba meant serious injury such as maiming, crippling, or killing. So on that we agree fully...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
Aikido
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