I think this guy could pull it off in real life...

[Basho]

Originally Posted by Superman17

You make a good point

You know, in your favor, I did have a thought after my last post.

Maybe I just haven't been hit hard enough!

[Superman17]

Originally Posted by Basho

You know, in your favor, I did have a thought after my last post.

Maybe I just haven't been hit hard enough!

Maybe some people don't hit hard... I wonder

[WC_Lun]

No, no, no, and NO!. Locking after contact is NOT a good idea. The idea of self defense is to not put yourself in a situation where harm comes to your person. If you are locking after you egt hit you have failed in that. I can accept that you haven't been knocked out by a punch, however, if you are hit by someone that know what they are doing it will cause your body to react. The shock of a real hit will cause a reaction in your body up to and sometimes even including broken bones and unconciousness. Saying you'll accept a hit to get a lock is very foolhardy.

As far as a person looking like they are cooperting when they aren't, I can see that happening in a rare instance. However, when an attacker steps into a bad position for themselves time and again without the proper influence of the defender it is pretty easy to tell that it is rehearsed and includes no real resisitance. Go back and look at that video. Count how many times the attacker has mechanical advantage and could get the defender in a single or double leg take down easily. Hell I don't even do JJ or judo and could see the danger the defender was putting himself in. Yes there is definitley something to be said for smooth and flowing from one thing to another, but it has to have some valid and realistic purpose or it is nothing more than some youtube cinema stroking someone's ego.

[Basho]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

No, no, no, and NO!. Locking after contact is NOT a good idea. The idea of self defense is to not put yourself in a situation where harm comes to your person. If you are locking after you egt hit you have failed in that. I can accept that you haven't been knocked out by a punch, however, if you are hit by someone that know what they are doing it will cause your body to react. The shock of a real hit will cause a reaction in your body up to and sometimes even including broken bones and unconciousness. Saying you'll accept a hit to get a lock is very foolhardy.

Totally not what I meant, bro! I'd never accept a hit to establish a lock! I'm just pointing out that I have taken the opportunity of turning a failed block into a lock. To illustrate that even though I couldn't catch a punch I have used them against people. With some success. Doesn't seem like such a bad idea. The appropriate response would be to divert or stop it, of course, just as you said. My meager skills fail me occasionally, so i guess it's just a fallback defense.

[Them's Fighting Words]

I watched that for about 5 seconds then had to stop before I pissed myself laughing. I'm pretty open minded but the "fall over when the instructor touches you" technique is just lame.

Originally Posted by Gambatte Karate

Also, anytime someone teaches you to grab someone's wrist who has punched at you, they are (in MY opinion) filling you full of crap. No-one can grab the punching wrist. (except maybe Chuck Norris. LOL)

Unless the guy throwing the punch is drunk off his face, then it's all fun and games.

Originally Posted by Superman17

Just one question... How useful would it be for after impact?

There's impact and impact. You learn to move the with punch so that it doesn't do anywhere near the damage it should have. Then you can apply your grab. Much easier than grabbing in mid air.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Basho

Totally not what I meant, bro! I'd never accept a hit to establish a lock! I'm just pointing out that I have taken the opportunity of turning a failed block into a lock. To illustrate that even though I couldn't catch a punch I have used them against people. With some success. Doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

Basho, the problem is you are now trying to apply a technique as your body is being negatively effected. You can only do this against people that don't have real striking or take down power. It is much, much, more effective to keep from taking that shot than having to deal with the repurcussions

[Basho]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Basho, the problem is you are now trying to apply a technique as your body is being negatively effected. You can only do this against people that don't have real striking or take down power. It is much, much, more effective to keep from taking that shot than having to deal with the repurcussions

This I concede without argument. Better to reply correctly. The lock is only a last ditch effort.

[Them's Fighting Words]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

No, no, no, and NO!. Locking after contact is NOT a good idea. Saying you'll accept a hit to get a lock is very foolhardy.

I've seen some reactive grappling work quite well so I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. For most, it's a bad idea. But there are those who will successfully lure an opponent to strike at a perceived opening, absorb the hit with little harm and then use a lock or take down. I've never seen it in a real SD situation but I have seen it in full contact tournaments and have pulled it off in full contact sparring. It's not my favored tactic but it can be useful.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Them's Fighting Words

I've seen some reactive grappling work quite well so I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. For most, it's a bad idea. But there are those who will successfully lure an opponent to strike at a perceived opening, absorb the hit with little harm and then use a lock or take down. I've never seen it in a real SD situation but I have seen it in full contact tournaments and have pulled it off in full contact sparring. It's not my favored tactic but it can be useful.

My idea of fighting is to be the most effecient I can be, making my opponent do the work for me. I also try to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible. If you are struck and have to flow off of getting struck then by all means do it. However, this is by no means the effecient or safe way to fight. If you are having to do this it means you have already screwed up somewhere and are now in a recovery mode. Your opponent is further down the path of hurting you than I feel comfortable letting them be. sometimes stuff happens and you have to work off of it. That should not be the mode of operation though.

[Them's Fighting Words]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

My idea of fighting is to be the most effecient I can be, making my opponent do the work for me. I also try to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible. If you are struck and have to flow off of getting struck then by all means do it. However, this is by no means the effecient or safe way to fight. If you are having to do this it means you have already screwed up somewhere and are now in a recovery mode. Your opponent is further down the path of hurting you than I feel comfortable letting them be. sometimes stuff happens and you have to work off of it. That should not be the mode of operation though.

I like training with knives so I agree that reflexive grappling isn't the best way to go about doing things, but it can be used. No matter one's ability, sometimes you get hit and if you can constructively absorb and counter that hit, then there's nothing wrong with doing so. And just because it's neither of our preferred tactics, doesn't mean that there aren't guys who readily and successfully use the lure and lock technique.

[WC_Lun]

I just think the lure and lock method is basically an oh crap card. Okay to use once in a while when you screw up, but get in a habit of it being there and it won't be there. Counting on it is a bad idea, especially against someone whose contact will change the deminsions and relations of the body.

[Them's Fighting Words]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

I just think the lure and lock method is basically an oh crap card. Okay to use once in a while when you screw up, but get in a habit of it being there and it won't be there. Counting on it is a bad idea, especially against someone whose contact will change the deminsions and relations of the body.

Well as I said, it's not something I'd do, but then again my striking is infinitely superior to my grappling. If my skill set was reversed, I might do a lure and lock. Interestingly I've read a similar argument on a forum (I can't remember if it was this one or not) where someone was espousing that because he was much more confident in his grappling than his striking, he'd happily use a lure and lock / take down strategy. My first reaction was to post; "try and use that strategy against a knife or broken bottle" but I decided against it seeing as knife fights aren't common everywhere. And maybe he could lure and lock against a knife.

BTW Lun; it's not often I get to argue with you, so I'm going to make the most of it. Wing Chun is for girls and Tai Chi is for geriatrics, calling yourself "Dragon" (even if it isn't in English) is un-original and so try-hard and I was unimpressed with your secretly leaked sex tapes.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Them's Fighting Words

BTW Lun; it's not often I get to argue with you, so I'm going to make the most of it. Wing Chun is for girls and Tai Chi is for geriatrics, calling yourself "Dragon" (even if it isn't in English) is un-original and so try-hard and I was unimpressed with your secretly leaked sex tapes.

ZING..... Anybody?!?!

[Gambatte Karate]

Originally Posted by Them's Fighting Words

BTW Lun; it's not often I get to argue with you, so I'm going to make the most of it. Wing Chun is for girls and Tai Chi is for geriatrics, calling yourself "Dragon" (even if it isn't in English) is un-original and so try-hard and I was unimpressed with your secretly leaked sex tapes.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha! Good stuff right there. LOL

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

It's odd that people always say that they have seen this type of sorcerery work in real life but there is never any video proof of it just "demos" Learning how to kill birds by just your kia is far more effective.