I think this guy could pull it off in real life...

[JuJido]

...but what do I know?

Have a look and tell me what you think.

[WC_Lun]

The stuff he is doing could work. It isn't the worse stuff I've ever seen. However, it does not have structure and relies too much on come-along moves in my opinion. it is obvious the guys attacking are not feeling threatened or really trying to attack him. If they were thier movements would be a bit different and many of those come-along moves would not work out.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

The stuff he is doing could work. It isn't the worse stuff I've ever seen. However, it does not have structure and relies too much on come-along moves in my opinion. it is obvious the guys attacking are not feeling threatened or really trying to attack him. If they were thier movements would be a bit different and many of those come-along moves would not work out.

I think this stuff would work but as you say it would look alot differnt and less flowery , the whole come along stuff should really only be used when blending between locks to work against the strength of your opponent , often this can look really fake if there is no reason to change locks and just looks like your showing off, but often you don't catch a lock quick enough and they guy manages to put enough strength in thier arm so you have then move the arm in a direction they aren't strong in to apply a new lock , but when thats coregraphed it just looks like poor.

[WC_Lun]

The thing that got me was the lack of real fight. If you try that come along stuff it might work, but it has to be used properly and the change of direction has to be pretty damn spot on. Otherwise you get bad things happen. Such as being taken down, slammed into, grabbed by thier free hand, hit on your own centerline, your own balance taken away, them bracing against where you are going and counter attacking... This stuff looks good and it works when used correctly, but not in the way it is being used in this vid. It is very obvious that this is a promotion vid meant for peope who see the beuaty of the flow, but not the real fighting aspects.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

The thing that got me was the lack of real fight. If you try that come along stuff it might work, but it has to be used properly and the change of direction has to be pretty damn spot on. Otherwise you get bad things happen. Such as being taken down, slammed into, grabbed by thier free hand, hit on your own centerline, your own balance taken away, them bracing against where you are going and counter attacking... This stuff looks good and it works when used correctly, but not in the way it is being used in this vid. It is very obvious that this is a promotion vid meant for peope who see the beuaty of the flow, but not the real fighting aspects.

Agreed ,

[Norton]

This is actually Aikido.

[JuJido]

Question: If the attackers didn't "come along", wouldn't they simply end up with broken elbows/dislocated shoulders? Or do I misunderstand what you guys mean with the term?

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Phyzmatix

Question: If the attackers didn't "come along", wouldn't they simply end up with broken elbows/dislocated shoulders? Or do I misunderstand what you guys mean with the term?

If the angle of travel is changed correctly then yes, what you are saying could happen. However, if you look at a lot of what that is being done in that vid you'll notice the attacker has plenty of room to change the angle to his own benefit, including moving in on the defender's space.

[Norton]

Originally Posted by Phyzmatix

Question: If the attackers didn't "come along", wouldn't they simply end up with broken elbows/dislocated shoulders? Or do I misunderstand what you guys mean with the term?

If you get the lock right, what you say is correct. But attackers don't lean their momentum forwardly as much as the guy in the video does,so getting a lock right is not easy.

[Chad]

Yeah, those guys are the Novi Sad Aiki-jutsu group

[JuJido]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

If the angle of travel is changed correctly then yes, what you are saying could happen. However, if you look at a lot of what that is being done in that vid you'll notice the attacker has plenty of room to change the angle to his own benefit, including moving in on the defender's space.

Originally Posted by Norton

If you get the lock right, what you say is correct. But attackers don't lean their momentum forwardly as much as the guy in the video does,so getting a lock right is not easy.

Oh ok, I see what you mean...The attackers know what the defender is going to do and thereby plays along, following the prescribed routine (?)

I have similar issues with how we're being taught self-defence at the moment. Our attackers offer virtually no resistance to the technique...having said that, as I'm an extreme novice, this is probably for the best (for now anyway) as resistance on the attacker's part and lack of control on mine could quite possibly result in injury.

[Crusading soul]

I don't know for sure. Like these guys said they would have to be really attacked or at least practice like a real attack to find out.
But I will say it is possible (a lot of people on here would disagree). I've used techniques like these before both in class and outside on people very activly trying to resist. That being said it is a lot harder against people who know the techniques or know how to defend.
I don't know about aikido but in hapkido we are taught to throw combinations the same as good striking. You try a lock and they stop it, you throw a good strike and flow it up. Maybe with another strike or if they are off balance with a lock or throw. Getting a good lock right away would require them to be moving with the technique and so off balance.(It doesn't mean they are playing along you can coerse'trick' people into moving the way you want, and you can use a technique that works with what ever they are doing, which is easy on people without much experience that tend to throw wild punches ) Or just be completly taken by surprise.

[Norton]

Originally Posted by Phyzmatix

Oh ok, I see what you mean...The attackers know what the defender is going to do and thereby plays along, following the prescribed routine (?)

I have similar issues with how we're being taught self-defence at the moment. Our attackers offer virtually no resistance to the technique...having said that, as I'm an extreme novice, this is probably for the best (for now anyway) as resistance on the attacker's part and lack of control on mine could quite possibly result in injury.

It's not going to change. They probably say that it will, but it won't. You'd better get yourself something more real right now, then spending a year and a half on it, like I did.

[JuJido]

Originally Posted by Norton

It's not going to change. They probably say that it will, but it won't. You'd better get yourself something more real right now, then spending a year and a half on it, like I did.

Thanks for the advice Norton, I'll definitely give it some thought.

The other aspects of the training (kumite and groundwork) is really good though as far as my inexperienced judgement can be trusted.

[Galaktia]

Go to the local boxing club and ask if you can bare hand a single round with one of the experienced boxers.

If you go down in the first 5 seconds, your training hasn't worked.

If you last 10 seconds... you are a dang good fighter.



Although in all seriousness ask some of the local boxing club if they don't mind hitting out at you a few times for you to practise, 9 times out of 10 they'll agree, and more often than not they'll hit you... and dang hard.


I used to train with a person from a boxing club, he didn't even have a national ranking and right from white belt to green belt in karate he kicked my backside left right and centre. Then I started to learn proper hikite use, and proper double movement and I started giving him a few black eyes inbetween getting them myself.