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This is the same argument that's always used, it's just to dang dangerous to really use, it was originally meant for armor clad warriors or aliens yawn yawn YAWN.
So can Steven Segal DO what he says he can DO. Now the word do is extremely important here because it is the verb which implies that there is some sort of action happening. Now if by DO you mean appear on film and toss non resisting people around like rag dolls, then yes he he can do that. If you mean be able to apply these lavish throws in a real life situation then the answer is no because we DO not ever see him or anyone else DOing this. If we mean can he do it against ancient samurai in feudal Japan, I'm going to have to go and double check with Jesus and Wyatt Earp but since he wasn't alive during that time then again NO he can not DO that.
So in short the answer is NO he can not DO what he says he can.
If we mean can he do it against ancient samurai in feudal Japan, I'm going to have to go and double check with Jesus and Wyatt Earp but since he wasn't alive during that time then again NO he can not DO that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
To comment on what type of attacks there are in MMA would suggest that you train MMA.
It would suggest, but probably not. But seriously, saying that you have to practice MMA to get basic judgement on it is a bit whack(oh yeah, I used the term!). It's like saying I can't tell what food tastes bad because I can't cook. Although a boxers jab does not taste nice!
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Here's the thing. No matter who you are, no matter what you claim, if your training methodology does not support the ability to deal with fully resisting opponents, then your ability to fight is severley compromised. I've seen some videos of Seagal training and his training seems more ego driven and designed to show what a great instructor he is, not to train himself or his students for real conflict. This is one of the reasons Gene Lebell was able to handle him so well, not once, but twice...well and Gene Lebell is freaking awsome.
As far as saying any art is okay for one or two techniques or dealing with an attack IF this or that...that is making excuses on why it doesn't work. If this parameter or this parameter has to be in effect for a martial art to be viable defensively, then IT IS NOT VIABLE. Find out why you are studying it, because it isn't for self defense.
Actually you can tell just from watching, e.g. the simple act of weighing each other up with jabs etc.
Oh, so you haven't ever trained MMA? You're just making an assumption on how MMA is trained based on what you see on the TV?
How about you don't actually know how it's trained, because you have never actually done it? What's so difficult about this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad
It would suggest, but probably not. But seriously, saying that you have to practice MMA to get basic judgement on it is a bit whack(oh yeah, I used the term!). It's like saying I can't tell what food tastes bad because I can't cook. Although a boxers jab does not taste nice!
Chad, your analogy is incorrect. The statement that was made was that MMA training is done a certain way. It was a general statement made about the techniques used in MMA. So, using your cooking analogy it would be more like this:
Chefs don't use metal cooking utensils because I don't taste any metal in my food.
It's an incorrect assumption made about the techniques used by chefs based on my limited understanding of what is happening in the kitchen.
If I were to consistently make incorrect statements on here about how your guys arts were practiced and performed you would smash me all day long. The truth is that 90% of the people on this forum have never done MMA and yet there are a TON of threads and posts about it's effectiveness, training methods, etc..
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
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Original argument fails because Aikido is not a "wartime art" by any stretch of the imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
Aikido prohibits sparring. Without sparring, it's just not a practical art to study on it's own for MMA.
It prohibits sparring because the techniques aren't suited to sparring. Quite simply the goal of most Aikido techniques is to not hurt or submit the person. The philosophy of the art is that "violence begets violence" and we should "break the cycle of violence".
That being said, a lot of the basic skills will probably let Aikido guys pick up a whole bunch of submissions faster than the regular person off the street. So while it may not be the most effective use of time for prepping for MMA, it isn't useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
If you're not seeing certain moves in MMA it's probably because they haven't been found to be very efficient or within the ruleset, not because the fighters don't know about the techniques.
No body is using my secret chi energy attacks in MMA. Its because brutish MMA guys can't handle the rigorous conditioning required to master it. Seriously you have to harden every part of your body (including your brain) to withstand energy blasts like the ones I am capable of. It's a little off topic, but my favorite way to condition currently is in the shower with Head and Shoulders 2-in-1. It is much more time efficient than any other method I know.
Oh, so you haven't ever trained MMA? You're just making an assumption on how MMA is trained based on what you see on the TV?
How about you don't actually know how it's trained, because you have never actually done it? What's so difficult about this?
Did i say that i havnt? I think not. Are you like always putting words into my mouth? Yes. I have dabbled in MMA, as in gone to a local gym a few times, but the fact of the matter is YOU CAN TELL FROM JUST WATCHING. If a fighter went all out with a punch there whole body would be FULLY used therefore you would be almost running at your opponent.
Also Tri's comment on the fact that the argument is that Aikido is to powerful, from my point of view it isnt, its just that nobody comes in with a head blow style attack with an invisible sword anymore lol
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Sorry, all out with a punch does not mean out of control. For many it means punching with the weight of the body behind and underneath it. The problem with many Aikido throws are they work wonderfully when an opponent breaks thier own centerline, but not so well when than doesn't happen. Truly I think this is due to the training methodology. You see, a trained striker or grappler is going to try to keep thier hips under thier shoulders most of the time, especially when striking. This makes a person much, much harder to throw. If you have little experience in countering this (ie sparring a resisiting opponent) then you have little hope of success in your throws. While it sounds as if I am picking on Aikido specifically here, I am not. I see this in many of the arts that use grappling, such as Hapkido and kung fu, as well as Aikido.
Sorry, all out with a punch does not mean out of control. For many it means punching with the weight of the body behind and underneath it. The problem with many Aikido throws are they work wonderfully when an opponent breaks thier own centerline, but not so well when than doesn't happen. Truly I think this is due to the training methodology. You see, a trained striker or grappler is going to try to keep thier hips under thier shoulders most of the time, especially when striking. This makes a person much, much harder to throw. If you have little experience in countering this (ie sparring a resisiting opponent) then you have little hope of success in your throws. While it sounds as if I am picking on Aikido specifically here, I am not. I see this in many of the arts that use grappling, such as Hapkido and kung fu, as well as Aikido.
Did i say that i havnt? I think not. Are you like always putting words into my mouth? Yes. I have dabbled in MMA, as in gone to a local gym a few times, but the fact of the matter is YOU CAN TELL FROM JUST WATCHING. If a fighter went all out with a punch there whole body would be FULLY used therefore you would be almost running at your opponent.
No I'm not putting words in your mouth. I specifically quoted you, so I know exactly what you said.
And so do you.
And so does the rest of the forum.
But in case you forget, I will sumarrize what you said:
"Even though I have never been in a single MMA class, I am going to make an assumption about it's training and say that it has no single attacks".
As usual, your are being presumptuous and making statements as facts that are actuall uninformed opinion.
Your opinion on MMA training is invalid since you have never even SEEN a class on MMA much less participated.
Stick with what you know, young.
Which is what, exactly, again if you don't mind refreshing me?
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
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No I'm not putting words in your mouth. I specifically quoted you, so I know exactly what you said.
And so do you.
And so does the rest of the forum.
But in case you forget, I will sumarrize what you said:
"Even though I have never been in a single MMA class, I am going to make an assumption about it's training and say that it has no single attacks".
As usual, your are being presumptuous and making statements as facts that are actuall uninformed opinion.
Your opinion on MMA training is invalid since you have never even SEEN a class on MMA much less participated.
Stick with what you know, young.
Which is what, exactly, again if you don't mind refreshing me?
Pick and choose your quotes a bit better -
This is a great video and as much as I will get attacked left right and centre for saying this but it is true, the difference is there are very few fully committed single attacks in mma and that is what most tma's are based on defending against - the drunken idiot who can only throw a nice big haymaker
Every attack has an element of defence from a certain point, thats why a kick is often quickly tucked back etc.
Actually you can tell just from watching, e.g. the simple act of weighing each other up with jabs etc.
Did i say that i havnt? I think not. Are you like always putting words into my mouth? Yes. I have dabbled in MMA, as in gone to a local gym a few times, but the fact of the matter is YOU CAN TELL FROM JUST WATCHING. If a fighter went all out with a punch there whole body would be FULLY used therefore you would be almost running at your opponent.
Also Tri's comment on the fact that the argument is that Aikido is to powerful, from my point of view it isnt, its just that nobody comes in with a head blow style attack with an invisible sword anymore lol
All of the above are all the posts ive put into this thread, the only thing i ever said about there are no committed moves is the part in bold, except note how i said from a certain point which means even if it is very very small a fighter is always thinking what will happen after this punch which is an element of defence
I personally do not feel i have to explain myself to you, however i will so you will not try to claim i dont do martial arts again.
I started Judo from the age of 7, i did judo until I was 9. Then when i hit 10 my father, who is a 4th Dan in Aikido, began to teach me some things along at his club and after a few months I joined the club fully, however I did not take any formal gradings as the club only had either white belt or black belt, and my father felt i was too young to go for black. I did Aikido until the age of 15 and i felt that Aikido was a bit too enclosed as an art so i took up Hapkido, and now I am currently studying Hapkido still to this day and i am a 2nd Dan in Hapkido. Every so often i go along to a friends gym who does MMA and stuff but im not to interested in that side of the martial arts compared to TMA's
Wow, so a guy who has studied Judo, Aikido, and Hapkido is an expert on punching?
No no, you're right those arts are definitely expert in striking. I never should have questioned your authority on striking in MMA, I mean clearly you're the expert.
You should start your own gym, in fact.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Wow, so a guy who has studied Judo, Aikido, and Hapkido is an expert on punching?
No no, you're right those arts are definitely expert in striking. I never should have questioned your authority on striking in MMA, I mean clearly you're the expert.
You should start your own gym, in fact.
I did not say i was an expert, i simply said that most of the time an attack is not fully committed, why do you think a punch or kick will come from a guard? Yes they are fully committed when they want to finish the fight however a lot of the times two fighters will punch from the back foot for instance, as if you come forward with the punch the parrying punch will do more damage. In fact you do not need to be an expert to see this in a match, its simply from looking where the centre line of the guy is
Can Steven Seagal do what he does on film?
. But seriously, saying that you have to practice MMA to get basic judgement on it is a bit whack(oh yeah, I used the term!). It's like saying I can't tell what food tastes bad because I can't cook. Although a boxers jab does not taste nice!
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