Chin Na

[sirdarksol]

Actually, it is outspoken very frequently in the Japanese dojos, at least the ones that I have been to. In fact, Matayoshi Kobudo draws heavily on several Chinese weapon styles, and Yamash-ita Sensei and his students readily admit it.
Of course, I don't doubt that there are other schools that try to claim that their art is original, and was developed solely within the bounds of Japan. I also don't doubt that these types of schools may be in the majority. I could easily just have been lucky to have the senseis that I have.
Where the Japanese and Chinese both become upset is when you suggest that they have a linked ancestry. That caused quite a stir between the two countries a couple of years ago.
And I will put in a third vote for it is likely that this is the (or at least a) source of Ju Jitsu. The ideas are very similar.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by sirdarksol

Actually, it is outspoken very frequently in the Japanese dojos, at least the ones that I have been to. In fact, Matayoshi Kobudo draws heavily on several Chinese weapon styles, and Yamash-ita Sensei and his students readily admit it.
Of course, I don't doubt that there are other schools that try to claim that their art is original, and was developed solely within the bounds of Japan. I also don't doubt that these types of schools may be in the majority. I could easily just have been lucky to have the senseis that I have.
*Where the Japanese and Chinese both become upset is when you suggest that they have a linked ancestry. That caused quite a stir between the two countries a couple of years ago.
And I will put in a third vote for it is likely that this is the (or at least a) source of Ju Jitsu. The ideas are very similar.

Indeed, only a few Japanese instructors are outspoken on this. I was being incongruous to imply that all/any were not.

*Yes, they dont want a "cultural blend" of that sort. You cant blame any people of culture that desires to maintain distinction and dissimilarity.

[wmks shogun]

It is the same with (many) Korean instructors and comparing TKD and TSD to Japanese Karate. But as you said 47MartialMan, it is about the desire for a unique, distinctive culture.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by wmks shogun

It is the same with (many) Korean instructors and comparing TKD and TSD to Japanese Karate. But as you said 47MartialMan, it is about the desire for a unique, distinctive culture.

But woe, with this unique, distinctive ideals come superciliousness and/or boorish demeanors

[shen long]

hi all

i could not help but read about your discussions on chin na i have been studying martial arts for a long time and have tryed 11 styles, and chin na is most impressive and most practical i feel. I have started to build my own style (not on the jkd band wagon i have to much respect for martial arts and bruce lee)any way has any watched the dvd course of chin na 1-12 it is most excellent to watch white crane chin na being performed i was just curios to know if anybody had seen any other chin na styles or trains in then and tell me what they think.

there are only a set number of ways to grab, hold, punch, kick, throw..but we still argue about it we should respect a stlye for what it is not for the flaws we see in the style.

cheers all

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by shen long

hi all

i could not help but read about your discussions on chin na i have been studying martial arts for a long time and have tryed 11 styles, and chin na is most impressive and most practical i feel. I have started to build my own style (not on the jkd band wagon i have to much respect for martial arts and bruce lee)any way has any watched the dvd course of chin na 1-12 it is most excellent to watch white crane chin na being performed i was just curios to know if anybody had seen any other chin na styles or trains in then and tell me what they think.

there are only a set number of ways to grab, hold, punch, kick, throw..but we still argue about it we should respect a stlye for what it is not for the flaws we see in the style.

cheers all

First....thanks for your pst.

Second, studying 11 styles is quite the undertaking...how long have you been a martial artist and how long did you practice each style?

Third, there arent any OTHER Chin Na "Styles".....there may bestyle that have the same seizing, grabbing, etc as Chin Na, like Ju Jitsu, but China Na is simply with in its own

[shen long]

hey thanks for replying to my pst..

well yes i know it seems like a large undertaking but it was not that hard i studyed each for about 2-3 yrs, first staring in karate then i wanted to broaden my stlye so i started to learn other stuff as well taking on 2-3 styles at a time, yes i did not have much of a life..hehehe but i found it amazing to see one man take on a defeat multiple opponets. so when i asked the BIG question why cant i use somthing i learnt from someone else and i can see it is more effective and use it in the style im learning now. well talk about close mindedness from the instructors. so i have vowed to do as many as possable and learn as much as i can so i can create an open martial art with no rules i guess.

but in the end i found my heart in ninjutsu, wing chun, and tai chi for some reason intructors tell me you cant mix japaniese and chinese martial arts well i also vowed i dont do politics

hope this answers your question.

thanks for asking

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by shen long

hey thanks for replying to my pst..

well yes i know it seems like a large undertaking but it was not that hard i studyed each for about 2-3 yrs, first staring in karate then i wanted to broaden my stlye so i started to learn other stuff as well taking on 2-3 styles at a time, yes i did not have much of a life..hehehe but i found it amazing to see one man take on a defeat multiple opponets. so when i asked the BIG question why cant i use somthing i learnt from someone else and i can see it is more effective and use it in the style im learning now. well talk about close mindedness from the instructors. so i have vowed to do as many as possable and learn as much as i can so i can create an open martial art with no rules i guess.

but in the end i found my heart in ninjutsu, wing chun, and tai chi for some reason intructors tell me you cant mix japaniese and chinese martial arts well i also vowed i dont do politics

hope this answers your question.

thanks for asking

First off. no offense, but 2-3 years is not enough to claim study in a style. There wasnt any time to learn sufficient skills. And if it was an instructor issue, than you really cant claim that style as you stated that it was close-minded.

Second, one cannot learn 2-3 styles simlutaneously for each style, in order to develop skills take up time on their own.

Third, usually when I see people "hopping" from style to style is a nomad that isnt sure what it is they are looking for. They would study the first thing coming along, impatient to see if it has potential, and then move to the next. These are martial art fad finders. And/or are young people watching too many movies or playing video games and think that is what martial arts is all about.

Instructors that state Chinese, Japanese, Dirtyknees, whatever -cant be mixed is as silly as saying people cannot get along because of the same indifferences. For example, a Chinese cannot wed a Japanese, an American cannot wed a Canadian, etc., it is plain silly. BUT, one cannot expect to barge in from culture to culture as though they would be readily accepted. Acceptance is earned.

However, one ought to study one at a time with great commitment, then pass on when the teacher has no problem with it.

[Xu Chu]

There are a Total of 82(not sure I need to ask again) grapples in Qin Na

[kuroitaka]

really i like chin na cause it powerful with locks u could use it in ground fighting actually i use in ground fighting but still if u were the best one in chin na u can't apply ur techniques to a boxer cause he flow very fast so using of chin na got its time like engaging with the opponant like in the begin of wrestling and the ground fighting but before u really engage him u need to do strikes

[John Takeshi]

Originally Posted by Xu Chu

There are a Total of 82(not sure I need to ask again) grapples in Qin Na

What about the 108 locks of Eagle Claw?

You're woefully short.

[shen long]

kuroitaka has a very good point boxers do flow very well because they restricted to there hands.. but you need to damage or get rid the two shields first (arms or fists) it is very delusional that any chin na techniques will work straight away you must break your opponent down first . in order to move in to chi na range. as a student of close quarters martial arts I feel that you have to except that you will get hit and no technique is 100% effective that is why you need to adapt, improvise and overcome during any fight you may find your self in.

i still like to control my opponent the purpose of chi na is a momentary point of control for you to strike vital points of the body.

There are no hidden secrets in martial arts just techniques you dont know.

[kuroitaka]

Originally Posted by shen long

kuroitaka has a very good point boxers do flow very well because they restricted to there hands.. but you need to damage or get rid the two shields first (arms or fists) it is very delusional that any chin na techniques will work straight away you must break your opponent down first . in order to move in to chi na range. as a student of close quarters martial arts I feel that you have to except that you will get hit and no technique is 100% effective that is why you need to adapt, improvise and overcome during any fight you may find your self in.

i still like to control my opponent the purpose of chi na is a momentary point of control for you to strike vital points of the body.

There are no hidden secrets in martial arts just techniques you dont know.

i agree with u but Chin na alone won;t work u must combine it with any striking atr cause strikes is the key to open the opponent's defenses when u have opened it u may now flow in any grabling art like aikido , chin na , wrestling , jiu jitsu ..etc.

[Majis0422]

Originally Posted by kuroitaka

i agree with u but Chin na alone won;t work u must combine it with any striking atr cause strikes is the key to open the opponent's defenses when u have opened it u may now flow in any grabling art like aikido , chin na , wrestling , jiu jitsu ..etc.

This is not true, if you think you must strike to open the opponents defenses your sadly mistaken. Many MA's open their defenses either when they strike, move into a new position and so forth. It is not necessarily a must to use an attack to open your oppenents defenses.

I have personal experience with this, for example, when I had a serious sparring session with my friend (no MA rules just a fight w/ pads, he is also a MA so it wasnt like I was fighting some untrained guy) I didnt have to attack at all he opened all the doors I needed to finish the fight. But this takes a trained eye to see these opening and use them to your advantage.

Side Note: Yes strikes help to open them, but your saying that ONLY strikes can open their defense.

[kuroitaka]

Originally Posted by Majis0422

This is not true, if you think you must strike to open the opponents defenses your sadly mistaken. Many MA's open their defenses either when they strike, move into a new position and so forth. It is not necessarily a must to use an attack to open your oppenents defenses.

I have personal experience with this, for example, when I had a serious sparring session with my friend (no MA rules just a fight w/ pads, he is also a MA so it wasnt like I was fighting some untrained guy) I didnt have to attack at all he opened all the doors I needed to finish the fight. But this takes a trained eye to see these opening and use them to your advantage.

Side Note: Yes strikes help to open them, but your saying that ONLY strikes can open their defense.

actually i belive that the strike is faster than involving in ground fighting so if u wanted to involve u may strike first then complete it in ground fighting . cause i believe that every opponent i meet is the best fighter in the world so i don't underestimate my oppenents and if i tried to involve with him and he was a god striker i'll find strikes to my face so i wouldn't take him in my fighting stance so i belive to open his defences with my strike .