tai chi qu'an

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by TenTigers

ah, ok. Gotcha. Yes. That is correct. In fact, the other night, after we performed a Lion Dance and Gung-Fu demo at one of the Chinese Resteraunts, one of the old waiters asked me if I would teach him taiji. He said,"Good for elderly!"

In fact, I do agree than most Occidentals that do it "thinking they are maintaining health", have little, to no, understanding of gongs.

[sloany]

When pacticing it for health reasons and not for fighting as it is meant for, then you are only gaining a small percent of the benefits that it actually has to give. It ends up becoming more of a dance, i am currently reading a book on the internal arts of ba gua, hsing i and tai chi and some of the techniques and abilities there is to gain are nearly other worldly.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by sloany

When pacticing it for health reasons and not for fighting as it is meant for, then you are only gaining a small percent of the benefits that it actually has to give. It ends up becoming more of a dance, i am currently reading a book on the internal arts of ba gua, hsing i and tai chi and some of the techniques and abilities there is to gain are nearly other worldly.

Well, if one is old or have health problems, then the health aspect far outweighs the fighting.

[Bajifan]

When pacticing it for health reasons and not for fighting as it is meant for, then you are only gaining a small percent of the benefits that it actually has to give.

I think that's fine, I'm all for people just practicing something for a very specific benefit and ignoring the rest... as long as they don't try and pass themselves off as expert teachers later on. without having a more complete understanding of the system. Unfortunately, a lot of rather healthy but half trained people end up charging money as teachers and passing on poor information about taiji quan. And since they don't know fully what they're doing, their own teaching is diluted diluted even further too the point where what they teach is only about as beneficial as walking around waving your arms in the air in slow motion :P

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Bajifan

I think that's fine, I'm all for people just practicing something for a very specific benefit and ignoring the rest... as long as they don't try and pass themselves off as expert teachers later on. without having a more complete understanding of the system. Unfortunately, a lot of rather healthy but half trained people end up charging money as teachers and passing on poor information about taiji quan. And since they don't know fully what they're doing, their own teaching is diluted diluted even further too the point where what they teach is only about as beneficial as walking around waving your arms in the air in slow motion :P

I believe Tai Chi isn't the only art experiencing this phenomenon. Martial Arts have always had its' share of charlatans. Unfortunately there are more today and the worst part is they don't even know they aren't real.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

I believe Tai Chi isn't the only art experiencing this phenomenon. Martial Arts have always had its' share of charlatans. Unfortunately there are more today and the worst part is they don't even know they aren't real.

Indeed. So is it better to learn from some one with half knowledge or rather from a book or vid?

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Indeed. So is it better to learn from some one with half knowledge or rather from a book or vid?

Tough call there , but if I HAD to choose between the two I would say learn from the live instrucotr, cause nothing says the book or vid isn't by someone who knows less than half...yeah, there's lots of them out there.

[souldrum71]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Indeed. So is it better to learn from some one with half knowledge or rather from a book or vid?

That's a tough call. Either one could be harmful if the video or the instructor teaches you bad habits.

[TenTigers]

which foot would you rather shoot yourself in?
The only way to truly learn Gung-Fu is through direct transmission, hands-on, from Sifu to student.
However, a Martial Artist with alot of experience, can pick up certain things from videos, and with a good training partner, develop his skill. This would occur mostly if the video is in a related style. For example, I train in Shuai-Jiao, throwing and grappling, and I have done some wrestling, and Hakko-Ryu Jiu-Jutsu. I can pick up alot of techniques from grappling, or BJJ dvd's. Since I have trained in the long form of Yang Tai-Chi, I can pick up other Yang forms as well.
As far as learning from a poor teacher is concerned, if you were a rank beginner, you could develop some really bad habits, and ideas. I've trained under some excellent teachers, and some horrible ones as well. I have learned from both. In my own teaching, I use many of the teaching methods of my good teachers, and try not to make the mistakes of my poor ones. The poor ones taught me what NOT to do.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by TenTigers

which foot would you rather shoot yourself in?
The only way to truly learn Gung-Fu is through direct transmission, hands-on, from Sifu to student.
However, a Martial Artist with alot of experience, can pick up certain things from videos, and with a good training partner, develop his skill. This would occur mostly if the video is in a related style. For example, I train in Shuai-Jiao, throwing and grappling, and I have done some wrestling, and Hakko-Ryu Jiu-Jutsu. I can pick up alot of techniques from grappling, or BJJ dvd's. Since I have trained in the long form of Yang Tai-Chi, I can pick up other Yang forms as well.
As far as learning from a poor teacher is concerned, if you were a rank beginner, you could develop some really bad habits, and ideas. I've trained under some excellent teachers, and some horrible ones as well. I have learned from both. In my own teaching, I use many of the teaching methods of my good teachers, and try not to make the mistakes of my poor ones. The poor ones taught me what NOT to do.

Good post - I'll give you a +rep. (Now you have two, the second from me)

Good or bad instruction does add to learning and learning adds to expereince.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by tortugo23

Funny video.

The last guy who moved fast was more correct.

There are many forms in taiji chuan, the slow one being one of them.

There are slow ones which are difficult if done correctly. These slow ones do a similar thing as repitions do. They also allow one to put in many more internal components than possible at first going fast.

The fast and fast/slow sets are more martial and applications oriented. Trains you to put internal components int faster, realtime movements.

Then there are sparing set forms and free style push hands.

The weapons forms train the weapons as well as some empty hand elements.

It can be meditative but if done right it is as relaxing as hold posture training. In fact it is more like a moving hold poture form.

This is just taiji chuan, one stlye. I know the other styles have similar forms and sets. Then don't forget the other internal arts which many train at the same time as taiji chuan.

If interested check out this forum which is entirely on the internal arts...
emptyFlower Forum - Index

Could you tell us a little more about yourself and that forum?

[John Takeshi]

Unfortnately, even if you learn tai chi martially, you'll still get beat up. The fact is, that if you go into a fight with the idea that you should "be soft", you will take one hard punch or leg kick, crumple up on the floor in a little protective ball, and begin sucking your thumb. That is, unless you study a good martial art on the side, like ninjitsu.

Send me a personal message, and I'll give you directions to my school, free of charge.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by John Takeshi

Unfortnately, even if you learn tai chi martially, you'll still get beat up. The fact is, that if you go into a fight with the idea that you should "be soft", you will take one hard punch or leg kick, crumple up on the floor in a little protective ball, and begin sucking your thumb. That is, unless you study a good martial art on the side, like ninjitsu.

Send me a personal message, and I'll give you directions to my school, free of charge.

Hmm...Seems to me if a person learns the martial aspects of Tai Chi then it would incorporate BOTH hard and soft, like any other fighting art. If someone just taught to be soft, then they wouldn't be teaching a 'martial' art, but rather just movements. "Be soft" in no way means being complient or taking shots either. Personally, I'd not want to learn a fighting art from anyone, teaching any style, that didn't understand these things.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by John Takeshi

Unfortnately, even if you learn tai chi martially, you'll still get beat up. The fact is, that if you go into a fight with the idea that you should "be soft", you will take one hard punch or leg kick, crumple up on the floor in a little protective ball, and begin sucking your thumb. That is, unless you study a good martial art on the side, like ninjitsu.

Send me a personal message, and I'll give you directions to my school, free of charge.

Woe, how he missed the point of Tai Ji Quan.

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Hmm...Seems to me if a person learns the martial aspects of Tai Chi then it would incorporate BOTH hard and soft, like any other fighting art. If someone just taught to be soft, then they wouldn't be teaching a 'martial' art, but rather just movements. "Be soft" in no way means being complient or taking shots either. Personally, I'd not want to learn a fighting art from anyone, teaching any style, that didn't understand these things.

Hence, how many have misconceptions and misunderstandings of it.