Palin/Biden debate

[complete]

I think the biggest punch that Palin threw that Biden didn't have the answer for us how Biden had said Obama wasn't ready to lead, disagreed with him on cutting the funding for the troop, praised McCain, all BEFORE he became the VP nomination. He did not have a rebuttal for that.

As for small businesses making $250/year, I would sure like to be there someday and I wouldn't want to be taxed for my hard work and effort so people who don't try and don't work hard can get my money instead. If I get penalized for working my arse off, what's my motivation? Isn't that like communism? Everybody get paid the same no matter who works hard or who does nothing.

[The End]

Originally Posted by complete

I think the biggest punch that Palin threw that Biden didn't have the answer for us how Biden had said Obama wasn't ready to lead, disagreed with him on cutting the funding for the troop, praised McCain, all BEFORE he became the VP nomination. He did not have a rebuttal for that.

How could he rebutt it?

[complete]

Originally Posted by The End

How could he rebutt it?

That's the point. He couldn't, and that's how you win the debate.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Originally Posted by complete

I think the biggest punch that Palin threw that Biden didn't have the answer for us how Biden had said Obama wasn't ready to lead, disagreed with him on cutting the funding for the troop, praised McCain, all BEFORE he became the VP nomination. He did not have a rebuttal for that.

He likes McCain. I havent heard anyone say they didnt like the guy. What do you want Biden to do say he was just saying whatever he thought would help him win even if he was lying? Or that he's lying now but he really wants to be VP? C'mon you have to realize this is nothing but a game.

He did however answer the bill troop funding issue. McCain voted against a bill with a timeline. Obama voted against a bill without a timeline. Take off your Repub glasses.



As for small businesses making $250/year, I would sure like to be there someday and I wouldn't want to be taxed for my hard work and effort so people who don't try and don't work hard can get my money instead. If I get penalized for working my arse off, what's my motivation? Isn't that like communism? Everybody get paid the same no matter who works hard or who does nothing.


Isnt that how the rich feel about us regular people? Of course no one wants their hard earned money going to lazy pieces of ****. I know people that are bodied enough to have 3 kids but wont go get a job...WTF???

The problem with our social programs is that the qualifications are too lax. If you are physically or mentally unable to work then you the govt should take care of you. If you are trying really hard and just not making it then I can see the govt helping you out provided you make certain goals and sacrifices (like not increasing your family since you already cant provide for them).

But the people that can logically afford to pay more are going to have to pay more, plain and simple. Our national deficit is crazy and this bailout plan plus the war is going to hurt.

Put it like this I dont have kids but you do, would you rather pay for this mess or would you rather leave it to them?

The defense rests your honor.

[The End]

Originally Posted by complete

That's the point. He couldn't, and that's how you win the debate.

Exactly. That why i think she won the debate.

[complete]

Originally Posted by Zaraki Kenpachi

The defense rests your honor.

Not so fast, counsel.

It still comes down to the fundamental difference in strategy of winning the war in Iraq. The dem wants definite time line, regardless of the condition, while rep wants conditions to be met before withdrawl. They both want to withdrawl troops as soon as possible but one wants win before timeline, the other wants timeline regardless of win/loss. That's the difference.

So, we are in agreement that we as society should help out those in need, but don't reward the lazy. The rich are already paying more tax. Let's take 20% as example. If I make $100K, I pay $20K. If I make $250K, I pay $50K. Yes, I have a kid and I want to keep my tax dollars so I can take care of him, not pay government money so they can take care of my son. Let's put it this way. For every $1 I don't pay in tax is $1 in my son's pocket. For every $1 I pay to uncle sam, my son would be lucky to get $0.10 back after all the beuracrats take their share.

[complete]

Originally Posted by The End

Exactly. That why i think she won the debate.

It was one point out of many many points so I'm not sure she won the whole debate because of this one point but again, I think she did well.

[The End]

Originally Posted by complete

It was one point out of many many points so I'm not sure she won the whole debate because of this one point but again, I think she did well.

I think it was very close but I think the way she seemed to connect with the everyday person put her slightly in the lead. Not to mention there were so many people who thought/hoped she would flop, I think she exceeded expectations.

[The End]

by Amanda Carpenter



Senator Joe Biden lied at least 14 times during the vice presidential debate according to those counting at John McCain’s presidential headquarters.

Tucker Bounds, a spokesman from GOP presidential candidate John McCain’s campaign said in a statement, “"Joe Biden graduated from his trademark verbal gaffe to outright lie in tonight’s debate.”

McCain’s blogger-in-chief Michael Goldfarb chronicled the 14 lies.


Joe Biden's 14 Lies

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.


On the foreign policy front, Biden challenged Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin when she said Barack Obama’s pledge to meet with any foreign leaders, including Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, without precondition “goes beyond naivete and goes beyond poor judgment.”

Biden lectured Palin, “That's just simply not true about Barack Obama. He did not say he'd sit down with Ahmadinejad.” During the YouTube Democratic primary debate last July Obama was asked if he would meet the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea without “precondition” during his first year in office.

“I would,” he replied.

Biden appeared to attack Obama for making that very statement in August 2007. While Biden was challenging Obama for the Democratic nomination for president Biden said he would not support such a pledge. “Would I make a blanket commitment to meet unconditionally with the leaders of each of those countries within the first year I was elected president?” he said in an appearance at the National Press Club. “Absolutely positively no."

Five of the lies Biden told were related to tax and energy votes. During the debate Biden adamantly claimed McCain voted the same way as Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama did on a vote to raise taxes on those making $42,000 a year. The legislative record shows McCain was not present in the Senate for either of those votes and is recorded as “not voting.”

The RNC also takes issue with Biden’s assessment Palin supports a “windfall profits tax” and Biden’s claim McCain voted against alternative energy 23 times. The independent Factcheck.org has previously stated when Obama and other Democrats made similar charges about the 23 votes “they’re overstating the case.”

The other lies detailed by Goldfarb were related to Biden’s characterization of McCain’s healthcare plan, stances on bank deregulation and the $700 billion financial bailout that recently passed the Senate.


http://townhall.com/columnists/Amand...ring_vp_debate

[TRIANGLEFROMGAURD]

I would continue to debate this but it is ridiculous. I will concede to any logical argument but, all that keeps getting said is the same garbage rehashed. YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vote for who you want to that is your freedom and right. And a salary of 250k a year is not a small business owner no matter how hard you bust your ass. If McCain wins the country is destroyed thats my opinion enjoy arguing who said what sit back and watch the whole thing burn. LOL

[The End]

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

I would continue to debate this but it is ridiculous. I will concede to any logical argument but, all that keeps getting said is the same garbage rehashed. YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vote for who you want to that is your freedom and right.If McCain wins the country is destroyed thats my opinion enjoy arguing who said what sit back and watch the whole thing burn. LOL

Well, i can agree with you to a point. I think we all have a right to our own opinions and we have every right to vote for whoever we want. And yeah some things do get rehashed over and over from both sides. I don't think either one winning is going to "destroy" the country though.

[TRIANGLEFROMGAURD]

Originally Posted by The End

Well, i can agree with you to a point. I think we all have a right to our own opinions and we have every right to vote for whoever we want. And yeah some things do get rehashed over and over from both sides. I don't think either one winning is going to "destroy" the country though.

Probably not but you never know.

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

And a salary of 250k a year is not a small business owner no matter how hard you bust your ass.

Yes, you are completely right in that almost no small business owners are pocketing $250k before taxes, however according to the Obama tax plan they would be taxed as if they were... which is exactly the problem.

The owner of the business would show an income of $250,000 before expenses. It is quite easy to reach $250,000 of gross income, especially if you are in a field with high expenses (such as construction). Take, for instance, a friend of mine who owns his own solar installation business. For any one particular job he may spend $30k and take in only $35k (rough numbers which aren't too far off). So, at 10 jobs in a year he earns $50k for his family, but would get taxed as if he earned $350k. Now, you can't actually tax a business, because he would be required to raise his prices accordingly. Higher prices mean less business, less business means fewer jobs and less solar power for Long Island suburbs.

That is the problem with the Obama/Biden tax plan. There is a loop hole that the government would use against small business owners which, for whatever reason, Obama/Biden hasn't bothered to address.

[TRIANGLEFROMGAURD]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Yes, you are completely right in that almost no small business owners are pocketing $250k before taxes, however according to the Obama tax plan they would be taxed as if they were... which is exactly the problem.

The owner of the business would show an income of $250,000 before expenses. It is quite easy to reach $250,000 of gross income, especially if you are in a field with high expenses (such as construction). Take, for instance, a friend of mine who owns his own solar installation business. For any one particular job he may spend $30k and take in only $35k (rough numbers which aren't too far off). So, at 10 jobs in a year he earns $50k for his family, but would get taxed as if he earned $350k. Now, you can't actually tax a business, because he would be required to raise his prices accordingly. Higher prices mean less business, less business means fewer jobs and less solar power for Long Island suburbs.

That is the problem with the Obama/Biden tax plan. There is a loop hole that the government would use against small business owners which, for whatever reason, Obama/Biden hasn't bothered to address.

No not at all because materials and labor are tax write offs. In any bussiness you are going to have over head. You are taxed on earned income not gross when you own a bussiness any CPA could write every aspect of that off. Bussiness owners a don't file a 1040 EZ to pay income tax they file under a 1099. I see what you are saying and if they filed like the rest of us working stiffs they would be screwed but they don't. Every buussiness accounts for their expenses when filling out taxes. Come on man you gotta know that.

[knuckleheader]

Originally Posted by complete

I think the biggest punch that Palin threw that Biden didn't have the answer for us how Biden had said Obama wasn't ready to lead, disagreed with him on cutting the funding for the troop, praised McCain, all BEFORE he became the VP nomination. He did not have a rebuttal for that.

As for small businesses making $250/year, I would sure like to be there someday and I wouldn't want to be taxed for my hard work and effort so people who don't try and don't work hard can get my money instead. If I get penalized for working my arse off, what's my motivation? Isn't that like communism? Everybody get paid the same no matter who works hard or who does nothing.

This election is about one word. Communism!

Go to Obomb-ma's web site.

He's got caviar dreams, and a Budweiser bucks to

pay for it all.

Unless, you give him your hard earned wages.


Palin, did very well.