whats useful in a fight

[Ben]

i recently attended a martial arts festival and at the end there was a set of fight round competitions, my sifu told me to watch from this and i found seeing combat in action was a real eye opener for me!

basically i noticed that in the fight styles seem to disappear, there was no difference between the mauy tai boxing and the dragon kung fu, this might be because i wasn't looking at the right things or because many of the participants were fairly inexperienced. I was particularly surprised at the student from the school i go to, many of the techniques we learned weren't present in his fighting.

i understand that lots of techniques are very difficult to recall even when im sparring let alone in a competition but this student wasnt a novice yet he was fighting like a western boxer


basically i wanted to ask is style important in a fight, i currently study mainly shaolin kung fu, should i make an extra effort to 'implant' certain key things like stances into my head because although i am only a young spectator i could spot several points where a simple shaolin technique may have got him out of a sticky situation? because when i fight i want to be able to use the techniques i learn, not just to use the strength or speed i aquire

[Jalek Moye]

in the fights i've used what i've learned in hung gar or drunken boxing. And more resently i've used many of the techniques i've added in on fight. It depends on the person either the moves will become second nature to you or you'll have to use yourf head to reacall them in a fight but you have to practice the application.

[disgruntled]

i think that style matters a lot. my favorite MA style that i know is HKD. it is my style and is best suited for me. i started to take MT to learn something that was not my style to round me out more and learn how to defend against that style. ("learn what you hate so you have it when you need it")....... and still when i panic i go back into my HKD fighting stance and throw those kicks..... an instructor even commented on it "this is Muay Thai not Tae Kwon Do". and honestly, watching fights and competitions, if i know the styles well and know what their style is i can see the differences, for the most part. i can at least tell the broad style like kung fu, muay thai, TKD/HKD...

[sirdarksol]

It may be that most of those involved weren't experienced enough for the automatic recall of skills.
It may be that the human instinct is more powerful than we, as martial artists, would like to believe.
It could be that your untrained eye didn't see anything. (I doubt this one, but I suppose it could be there)
It may be that, for many martial arts, the first moves that we learn (and so the first ones that come to our bodies) are very similar.

My guess is that it's a combination of two or more of the above, plus some other, unstated factors.

[chayudo]

Sometimes its hard to spot a art in the heat of battle, but with the more experienced its there. Just not over emphasized.

[Dancing Dragon]

In fights, I find that my straight lead, straight blast, groin kick, and backfist seem to be my most potent techniques at mid-range. My shin/knee kick works wonders at long range. But like Jalek said, you gotta take your techniques, simplify them and apply them. "Polish your skills so that they will shine in battle"

[Stevedav]

The way i trian is to learn to react first because if you need to think before you act then usually the time for the action has passed while you were thinking about it. It shouldn't really matter what style you use if you train to react then in a fight if some one for example trys to jab you and and you've trained to block the jab and burst into cross, hook, cross, knee then thats what should happen and the more you train the more senarios (sp?) you get familiar with the better you should become! Just my opinion though.

[Hyoso_Hojin]

probably the most useful thing in a fight would have to be a gun or a weapon of some kind but you shouldnt have to use them if you are a true Bitchin martial artist

[kenpodog]

Originally Posted by Ben

i understand that lots of techniques are very difficult to recall even when im sparring let alone in a competition but this student wasnt a novice yet he was fighting like a western boxer


basically i wanted to ask is style important in a fight, i currently study mainly shaolin kung fu, should i make an extra effort to 'implant' certain key things like stances into my head because although i am only a young spectator i could spot several points where a simple shaolin technique may have got him out of a sticky situation? because when i fight i want to be able to use the techniques i learn, not just to use the strength or speed i aquire

In grade school we learn many facts, dates, formulas, etc... but the most important thing we learn is "How To Learn" (memorization, references, sources of information, etc...).

Martial Arts is much more focused but it has similar concepts.
To explain, I take American Kenpo, which teaches many fighting principles through basics, techniques and sparring. We practice these until they are ingrained and spontaneous.
IMHO, I'm learning "How to move well and respond correctly to (or create) open targets without thinking". This is the same thing as applying the fighting principles I've learned to a particular situation even if I'm not aware of it.

Techniques or pieces of techniques may or may not be seen, but a skilled fighter will move in an efficient manner usually to generate speed/power while avioding wasted motion and protecting himself. He may not think at all or even be aware of everything going on but if he has practiced enough his motion will reflect his training.

Style usually doesn't matter, it is only a particular path to a similar destination.

Next time don't look for techniques, look for one who moves well, you will notice it and probably not be able to explain or analize why.

[nom]

Originally Posted by Hyoso_Hojin

probably the most useful thing in a fight would have to be a gun or a weapon of some kind but you shouldnt have to use them if you are a true Bitchin martial artist

I was wondering if anybody was going to say that? That was my first thought.


I saved this text file ... I read it somewhere (dont really remember now) and I thought it pretty interesting.

............

Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend.

If you can choose what to bring to a fight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Always cheat always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

Have a plan.

Have a back-up plan because the first one won’t work.

Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

Don’t drop your guard.

Always Tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep you hands where I can see them.)

Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Be courteous to everyone. Friendly to no one.

Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

...........

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by Hyoso_Hojin

probably the most useful thing in a fight would have to be a gun or a weapon of some kind but you shouldnt have to use them if you are a true Bitchin martial artist

Really don't over estimate a gun. At a melee type of distance it becomes pretty difficult to shoot someone, but really easy to shoot someone not involved in the fight. Unless you really know how to control the randomness and power that is a gun, you really shouldn't be carrying one around.

[sirdarksol]

I take great issue with some of the info carried in the file that nom shared. It suggests that for defense, a massive amount of lead between yourself and your opponent is the way to go. There are several problems that I have with this.
#1 If you are anywhere populated, and you randomly fire because "ammo is cheap", you are risking people's lives.
#2 This is not even defense. This is offense.
#3 The statement that someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it, aside from touching on issue #1, is false. There is a problem that every weapon has, and its weakest point is in the phase of drawing the weapon. A weapon can be taken away. If you reach into your coat when a guy has a knife on you, he's likely to cut you with the knife while grabbing at whatever you're reaching for.

I have seen these rules before, they were posted in a paintball forum, and they do have an application. In warfare, these rules matter a lot. However, in self defense applications, they are, at best, dangerous to everyone around you.

[Little Dragon 117]

Man that gun thing was intreasting,

well my best moves that work in fighting are:
- staying mobile w/ good footwork or stance
- lead jab to shin side kick (be sure to lean away from the kick)
- shin kick to jab or hook

In-Fighting:
- if you're in-fighting, look at the opps waist or feet.
- hooks, crosses, uppercuts, elbows and knees become most effective when striking

- grappling such as: joint locks, HIA (hair immobilization attack) take-downs, sweeps, Limg breaking, groin grabbing, ear pulling, headbutts.

always be aggressive and never let your opp take the offensive.

keep a distance where you are safe and he is not.

maintain lightness in footwork, and use your whole body in your attacks.

snap your punches and kicks

these are all things that i have learned from JKD research and from my own thinking.When i use these in sparring, no one can touch me (but i've only fought against ninjitsu, street fgihter, and boxing) i have yet to get up close to a grappler though

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by sirdarksol

I have seen these rules before, they were posted in a paintball forum, and they do have an application. In warfare, these rules matter a lot. However, in self defense applications, they are, at best, dangerous to everyone around you.

I thought that those rules might apply especially well to paintball, but I also thought the only reason I thought that was because I had just gotten back from a day of paintball.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Ben

i recently attended a martial arts festival and at the end there was a set of fight round competitions, my sifu told me to watch from this and i found seeing combat in action was a real eye opener for me!

basically i noticed that in the fight styles seem to disappear, there was no difference between the mauy tai boxing and the dragon kung fu, this might be because i wasn't looking at the right things or because many of the participants were fairly inexperienced. I was particularly surprised at the student from the school i go to, many of the techniques we learned weren't present in his fighting.

i understand that lots of techniques are very difficult to recall even when im sparring let alone in a competition but this student wasnt a novice yet he was fighting like a western boxer


basically i wanted to ask is style important in a fight, i currently study mainly shaolin kung fu, should i make an extra effort to 'implant' certain key things like stances into my head because although i am only a young spectator i could spot several points where a simple shaolin technique may have got him out of a sticky situation? because when i fight i want to be able to use the techniques i learn, not just to use the strength or speed i aquire

Because when it comes down to the moment of truth, only a scant few methods surface and thus it may all look the same.