Most violent martial art? - Page 14

**Joemoplata** · 05-12-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

Wrestling is a very specific thing it has very specific techniques. In high levels of competition is would be required. How are you going to stop the take down???? How are you going to obtain superior position on the ground? BJJ gives you a chance to submit a guy but, if you suck at submissions you should be able to improve your position this is what wrestling does for you. I don't say this because I'm a wrestler or because another wrestler told me this is whats what. This is what I've seen first hand try to understand that. I did it, not someone else and then they came and told me about it. Me just little ole me.

Joe where the hell have you been?

MM47 let me know the names of their camps and I'll galdly set up a fight for them out here or in KY. There is a huge event being thrown out here in Oct. that we'll be televised on comcast sports channel. If that is not soon enough TFC 12 is on June 14th and will be on HDNET. So let me know I'll make sure to set them up against one of my guys or another school that has a strong wrestling base, then we can all watch the results together

Sorry Bro, I been tied up lately!

Point 'em out for me, I got your back dude!!!

**TRIANGLEFROMGAURD** · 05-12-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoddeBPM

Why? I thought that a BJJ guy would have the slight advantage? Rule changes?

Anyone wanna explain to me the major differences between the two styles?

I don't know much about wrestling or BJJ.

Wrestling is primarily focused on the take down, bjj is primarily focused on the submission. The first thing I had to get use to in bjj was being comfortable on my back. With wrestling this not the place to be. So in bjj you have the edge in being comfortable everywhere. They also have good ground position and effective shrimping. In wrestling you have much better take downs and take down defense. So a good wrestler can control where the fight happens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

Let's start with the current UFC title holders by weight.

Heavyweight: Randy Couture
Primary fighting style: Greco-Roman Wrestling

Light Heavyweight: Quinton Jackson
Primary Fighting Style: Freestyle Wrestling

Middleweight: Anderson Silva
Primary Fighting Style: Muay Thai

Welterweight: George St Pierre
Primary Fighting Style: All, but started as a mostly BJJ guy

Lighweight: BJ Penn
Primary Fighting Style: BJJ

Also GSP is a great wrestler was going to give up MMA for olympic wrestling.

To add a few more.
Matt Hughes, Jon Fitch, Josh Barnett, Bas Rutten, Mark Coleman, Chuck Liddel, Tito Ortiz, Jake O'Brien, Spencer Fisher, Sean Sherk. And the list goes on and on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

if you are in an MMA match and you can't stop your opponent from taking you down then you lose simply because he was able to control the pace and range of the fight.

On the other hand, if you continually stuff a wrestlers takedowns and keep him standing then you will win for the same reason.

So it actually CAN be a wrestling contest just as much as it can be ONLY a kickboxing match. Depends on the fighters.

Yep

**Joemoplata** · 05-12-2008, 10:42 AM

100% about St Pierre.

The only part of his game that has shown trememdous growth is his wrestling, which everyone agrees is now at the high level, and that is what has propelled him past everyone in his weight. Anyone who can take down Hughes at will is a ridiculous wrestler and that is what the difference was in their fights.

Without question, that is whay St Pierre is now considered one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world.

**47MartialMan** · 05-12-2008, 10:49 AM

Yeah, all of these guys won all of their matches, with wrestling.

Lets see, multiple training, cross-training, eclectic, are MMA before MMA was coined.

To be a MMAst, wrestling is not required.

Kung Fu is not "A" martial art.

Katas are practiced in EVERY martial art.

TKD can win in the street.

**Joemoplata** · 05-12-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Yeah, all of these guys won all of their matches, with wrestling.

Lets see, multiple training, cross-training, eclectic, are MMA before MMA was coined.

To be a MMAst, wrestling is not required.

Kung Fu is not "A" martial art.

Katas are practiced in EVERY martial art.

TKD can win in the street.

So once again you prove you have nothing useful to bring to the conversation. Thanks.

**TRIANGLEFROMGAURD** · 05-12-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Yeah, all of these guys won all of their matches, with wrestling.

Lets see, multiple training, cross-training, eclectic, are MMA before MMA was coined.

To be a MMAst, wrestling is not required.

Kung Fu is not "A" martial art.

Katas are practiced in EVERY martial art.

TKD can win in the street.

I said to be successful in MMA someone needs wrestling. Yes you can do MMA with out wrestling and get beat up.

Kata's are not practiced in every martial art. Using that term implies that all martial arts are Japanese which is also racist.

Yes on the kung fu thing but it is an acceptable term.

Who said TKD couldn't?

**WC_Lun** · 05-12-2008, 11:08 AM

hmm from what I am reading, here is the gist of many, many, of the post 47MM has written,

There can be exceptions to every rule.

I believe this is true. However, training is not about exceptions. If my sport involves taking someone down or defending against the take down, then wrestling is an excellent source for that training. Saying one doesn't necessarily need wrestling training to prepare for those circumstances, while might be true on some level, is misleading...and in my opinion is just fuel for arguing in a non-productive manner.

**GoddeBPM** · 05-12-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

Wrestling is primarily focused on the take down, bjj is primarily focused on the submission. The first thing I had to get use to in bjj was being comfortable on my back. With wrestling this not the place to be. So in bjj you have the edge in being comfortable everywhere. They also have good ground position and effective shrimping. In wrestling you have much better take downs and take down defense. So a good wrestler can control where the fight happens

And by takedown, I presume not flipping over shoulders kinda stuff but more... Suplex kinda stuff?
But does wrestling have chokes and joint manipulation?

***complete*** · 05-12-2008, 11:12 AM

This is a very good topic and there are good discussions here. Please keep it non-personal attacks and issues only.

My 2 cents. Having trained mostly on Korean arts with emphasis on standup (even then, mostly kicks) I do like the stand up styles but I'm not blind to see that other aspects are important, if I'm training to be MMA fighter. If I was training to be an Olympic TKD, I'd forget the wrestling and concentrate on what scores the points. I did wrestle 2 years in high school and it's a great addition to overall training. Again, if you go by the "rules", wrestling is different than BJJ or MMA, since in high school wrestling, you try not to be on your back even if you are in more controlled position.

**TRIANGLEFROMGAURD** · 05-12-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoddeBPM

And by takedown, I presume not flipping over shoulders kinda stuff but more... Suplex kinda stuff?
But does wrestling have chokes and joint manipulation?

The flipping over the shoulder stuff exists in wrestling as well. Every Judo throw that can be done with out a gi is also a wrestling throw, they just have different names. Yes wrestling does have submission holds. They are not as affective and not practiced as much as the ones in bjj. Here is a great wrestling submission. I can post more if you'd like. Joe you knew I was gonna pick this one!!!!

YouTube - Eddie Bravo: The Twister Roll

**Joemoplata** · 05-12-2008, 11:22 AM

You love you some Eddie BRavo!!

**47MartialMan** · 05-12-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

I said to be successful in MMA someone needs wrestling. Yes you can do MMA with out wrestling and get beat up.

Kata's are not practiced in every martial art. Using that term implies that all martial arts are Japanese which is also racist.

Yes on the kung fu thing but it is an acceptable term.

Who said TKD couldn't?

Sucessful MMA...per what competition?

**47MartialMan** · 05-12-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

hmm from what I am reading, here is the gist of many, many, of the post 47MM has written,

There can be exceptions to every rule.

I believe this is true. However, training is not about exceptions. If my sport involves taking someone down or defending against the take down, then wrestling is an excellent source for that training. Saying one doesn't necessarily need wrestling training to prepare for those circumstances, while might be true on some level, is misleading...and in my opinion is just fuel for arguing in a non-productive manner.

So MMA is only about sport?