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General Martial ArtsDiscuss General Martial Arts here
I think he mentioned bikers because someone earlier had mentioned them. Of course, for me, I stay out of rough bars anymore. However, one never knows who you may end up dealing with. I think the point he was making was sometimes people over simplify things concerning bikers, skinheads, Crips, etc. he makes some good points. They rarely fight one on one, often use weapons, and not all of them are out of shape push-overs. What's ridiculous about that?
Nothing.
People tend to carry over dislikes about somone's post no matter what their other posts may be. It is a issue of prejudice and emotion.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Styles: Currently: BJJ, JKD, Judo. Past: Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Haganah, Tang Soo Do
Posts: 262
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
Dude where?
You can look up info on just about nay outlaw MC right online. just type in keyword hell's angels, outlaws, bandidos, pagan's, etc. I work in a prison, and I still come across them, particularly Pagan's. They used to actually have their headquarters right in my immediate area.
Funny thing is, a lot of the gangs like the Mongols actually have their own websites, as do the Pagans along with contacts to their "brothers" currently doing time.
You can look up info on just about nay outlaw MC right online. just type in keyword hell's angels, outlaws, bandidos, pagan's, etc. I work in a prison, and I still come across them, particularly Pagan's. They used to actually have their headquarters right in my immediate area.
Funny thing is, a lot of the gangs like the Mongols actually have their own websites, as do the Pagans along with contacts to their "brothers" currently doing time.
I think Tri may have been proving a point as per my posts 144/150, and Joe's post 146.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
People tend to carry over dislikes about somone's post no matter what their other posts may be. It is a issue of prejudice and emotion.
I don't think that is the case. I think what we see here is that things with gangs and this and that is the extreme, it's not the norm. Many of the people on this forum and in fact the entire world will never fight an entire gang of people. Some may come across it, that is true but, should it affect the way that everyone trains? If so where does it stop? Steve Irwin got taken out by freaking sting ray, should we now start training for aquatic life defense? What about polar bears? How about angry former circus midgets? These things may happen but, what is the real likely hood of it ever happening to everyone?
I personally am not trying to be rude when I post things like "this is ridiculous" but, at some point we have to draw a line. We're looking at sports martial arts so we look where it is tested and forged in the ring or cage. I offered the defense that one on one street or ring there is not much difference. Then the typical arguments started rearing their ugly heads. What about gangs and more then one attacker, what if the entire country of Macedonia wanted to fight you? Where is your combat sport now? And every one puffs out their chest ha ha ha you can't take out a whole country with BJJ or boxing. These arguments get incredibly stale and boring after a time.
__________________
I'm a shark, the ground game is my ocean. And most people don't know how to swim. Oh yeah and I can knock you out too
Everything I know in life, I learned from watching the Fall Guy.
Styles: Currently: BJJ, JKD, Judo. Past: Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Haganah, Tang Soo Do
Posts: 262
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
These things may happen but, what is the real likely hood of it ever happening to everyone?
I can't speak for everyone, however, in my line of work, I often will be surrounded by several people who are incarcerated for a variety of reasons. There are people there for minor violations all the way up to multiple homicides. There are people who are gang members and so on. Should several of them decide to attack me, my ability to successfully execute a flying armbar, defend against an Omo-Plata of defend the cross-body armbar will be of little benefit. each of us deals with a different reality in our day to day lives and we each see "self defense" differently as well. Do I believe training in various martial arts over the years is helpful to self defense? Absolutely. But they, just like the RBSD systems do have their weaknesses.
I think he mentioned bikers because someone earlier had mentioned them. Of course, for me, I stay out of rough bars anymore. However, one never knows who you may end up dealing with. I think the point he was making was sometimes people over simplify things concerning bikers, skinheads, Crips, etc. he makes some good points. They rarely fight one on one, often use weapons, and not all of them are out of shape push-overs. What's ridiculous about that?
Because there is no logical form of unarmed self defense against a gang of people with weapons. The only ways to logically address this situation are:
1. Run.
2. Talk your way out.
3. Call for help.
4. Use a weapon.
I was simply trying to say that a trained fighter is going to be better at handling a one on one situation than your best street fighter and everyone automatically jumped to "What if he has friends/what if he has a weapon". If we're going to make this jumps in scenarios then fine, I can go with
"What if I was actually bigger and stronger than I am now and had my Black Belt in BJJ and was a Muay Thai champion who also happened to be carrying an Ak-47?"
Avoiding answering a question by changing the scenario is not an argument I want to get into because it's a never ending argument.
See what I'm saying?
I see Dravens point that you might be facing someone who is actually quite good at fighting, and that I part I do agree with. That's always the assumption, that's why IT'S BEST TO TRAIN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL POSSIBLE.
I don't think that is the case. I think what we see here is that things with gangs and this and that is the extreme, it's not the norm. Many of the people on this forum and in fact the entire world will never fight an entire gang of people. Some may come across it, that is true but, should it affect the way that everyone trains? If so where does it stop? Steve Irwin got taken out by freaking sting ray, should we now start training for aquatic life defense? What about polar bears? How about angry former circus midgets? These things may happen but, what is the real likely hood of it ever happening to everyone?
Indeed. As I had posted; I somewhat agree. Training to fight a "biker", would be like training to fight against a baby-faced teenager with a gun.
Though self defense training should be about variables, it shouldn't go beyond tangible situations of one's own activities/environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The End
I personally am not trying to be rude when I post things like "this is ridiculous" but, at some point we have to draw a line. We're looking at sports martial arts so we look where it is tested and forged in the ring or cage. I offered the defense that one on one street or ring there is not much difference. Then the typical arguments started rearing their ugly heads. What about gangs and more then one attacker, what if the entire country of Macedonia wanted to fight you? Where is your combat sport now? And every one puffs out their chest ha ha ha you can't take out a whole country with BJJ or boxing. These arguments get incredibly stale and boring after a time.
But this thread is abut critics of sport martial arts, per I guess critcizing or pointing out certain flaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The End
I can't speak for everyone, however, in my line of work, I often will be surrounded by several people who are incarcerated for a variety of reasons. There are people there for minor violations all the way up to multiple homicides. There are people who are gang members and so on. Should several of them decide to attack me, my ability to successfully execute a flying armbar, defend against an Omo-Plata of defend the cross-body armbar will be of little benefit.
Per my above italized quote in blue and previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The End
each of us deals with a different reality in our day to day lives and we each see "self defense" differently as well. Do I believe training in various martial arts over the years is helpful to self defense? Absolutely. But they, just like the RBSD systems do have their weaknesses.
I agree. And we should prepare defense about our life situations and/or environments.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
I can't speak for everyone, however, in my line of work, I often will be surrounded by several people who are incarcerated for a variety of reasons. There are people there for minor violations all the way up to multiple homicides. There are people who are gang members and so on. Should several of them decide to attack me, my ability to successfully execute a flying armbar, defend against an Omo-Plata of defend the cross-body armbar will be of little benefit. each of us deals with a different reality in our day to day lives and we each see "self defense" differently as well. Do I believe training in various martial arts over the years is helpful to self defense? Absolutely. But they, just like the RBSD systems do have their weaknesses.
Dude, I completely disagree.
As you know, I live and train in the Washington, DC metro area. As a result, we get a ton of Secret Service/FBI/DEA/Military types in our school as does EVERY martial arts school in the area.
We have one BJJ black belt who is a supervisor guard for the Juvenile Detention Center for Fairfax County. He will 100% tell vouch for how much BJJ has made his job easier for him controlling riots and out of control detainees. I have known him literally his entire training period of BJJ and have heard the countless stories of how many times he has used his skills at his job and how much they have helped him over the years as he has progressed in skill.
We have a very experience Purple Belt who is a high ranking official with the DEA. He was also at one time a competitive Muay Thai fighter IN THAILAND. He will tell you over and over an over how much what he has learned from BJJ has helped him in his job. So much so that he has started a grappling program at Quantico for recruits to learn the skills he feels can help save lives in the DEA.
Give yourself another 3 to 4 years of training, TheEnd, and watch how much you improve and start to really understand the effectiveness of what you're learning. I think you will have a different appreciation for it.
I can't speak for everyone, however, in my line of work, I often will be surrounded by several people who are incarcerated for a variety of reasons. There are people there for minor violations all the way up to multiple homicides. There are people who are gang members and so on. Should several of them decide to attack me, my ability to successfully execute a flying armbar, defend against an Omo-Plata of defend the cross-body armbar will be of little benefit. each of us deals with a different reality in our day to day lives and we each see "self defense" differently as well. Do I believe training in various martial arts over the years is helpful to self defense? Absolutely. But they, just like the RBSD systems do have their weaknesses.
No art is perfect and no one tried stating that but, again your case as a corrections officer is the exception not the rule. Unless I'm mistaken and I'm the only non corrections officer here? If that is the case then yes I'm wrong. But to not realize that particular situation is a rarity and not the norm. Only gives fuel to a fire that is out of control.
__________________
I'm a shark, the ground game is my ocean. And most people don't know how to swim. Oh yeah and I can knock you out too
Everything I know in life, I learned from watching the Fall Guy.
Because there is no logical form of unarmed self defense against a gang of people with weapons. The only ways to logically address this situation are:
1. Run.
2. Talk your way out.
3. Call for help.
4. Use a weapon.
I was simply trying to say that a trained fighter is going to be better at handling a one on one situation than your best street fighter and everyone automatically jumped to "What if he has friends/what if he has a weapon". If we're going to make this jumps in scenarios then fine, I can go with
"What if I was actually bigger and stronger than I am now and had my Black Belt in BJJ and was a Muay Thai champion who also happened to be carrying an Ak-47?"
Avoiding answering a question by changing the scenario is not an argument I want to get into because it's a never ending argument.
See what I'm saying?
I see Dravens point that you might be facing someone who is actually quite good at fighting, and that I part I do agree with. That's always the assumption, that's why IT'S BEST TO TRAIN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL POSSIBLE.
I agree. I guess it is like insurance. there is OK coverage, good coverage, excellent coverage, neither is going to stop/prevent a accident. Its best to get the best coverage as possible.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Styles: Currently: BJJ, JKD, Judo. Past: Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Haganah, Tang Soo Do
Posts: 262
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
Dude, I completely disagree.
As you know, I live and train in the Washington, DC metro area. As a result, we get a ton of Secret Service/FBI/DEA/Military types in our school as does EVERY martial arts school in the area.
We have one BJJ black belt who is a supervisor guard for the Juvenile Detention Center for Fairfax County. He will 100% tell vouch for how much BJJ has made his job easier for him controlling riots and out of control detainees. I have known him literally his entire training period of BJJ and have heard the countless stories of how many times he has used his skills at his job and how much they have helped him over the years as he has progressed in skill.
We have a very experience Purple Belt who is a high ranking official with the DEA. He was also at one time a competitive Muay Thai fighter IN THAILAND. He will tell you over and over an over how much what he has learned from BJJ has helped him in his job. So much so that he has started a grappling program at Quantico for recruits to learn the skills he feels can help save lives in the DEA.
Give yourself another 3 to 4 years of training, TheEnd, and watch how much you improve and start to really understand the effectiveness of what you're learning. I think you will have a different appreciation for it.
Well, believe it or not, I definitely see the uses of BJJ and other grappling arts in Corrections/Law Enforcement. I have used them from time to time, I have used an Osoto_Gari throw on an inmate, I have choked people out, have used standing arm locks, fish hooked one guy and so on. On the other hand, i also am well aware that the situation involved me and one other person and no home-made weapons were involved.
The thing that really sucks about these threads is it starts out a good discussion and ends up a pi$$ing contests which i think is not needed.
Critics of "sport" martial arts
