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General Martial ArtsDiscuss General Martial Arts here
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john55
BJJ is actually very hard to learn. Definitely the hardest art I have ever taken. The army combative guys only learn a few basic moves and would get schooled by a low/mid level BJJ white belt.
The reason I say BJJ is so hard is because not only do you have to learn all moves submissions and chokes but you have to apply them against someone who is resisting 100% against you to advance, and not just one person, but many people of different weights/ages/experience levels. To illustrate an example, take your art of TSD. Imagine if that before you could advance to a new belt, you had to effectively do all of your moves in a fight against someone going 100%. Imagine how hard it would be to land a front kick, side kick, certain punches etc. Thats why BJJ is so hard. Its also why anyone ranked in BJJ can easily use their moves against people who are resisting.
we do more than just learn a few basic moves. but while a bjj white belt may school a combatives guy. might school some level 2s also but if a combatives guy is level 3 or 4 the bjj guy is gonna get trashed. cause the higher levels incorporate other arts. and alot of combatives guys either
cross train or have experience in different styles.
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“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
we do more than just learn a few basic moves. but while a bjj white belt may school a combatives guy. might school some level 2s also but if a combatives guy is level 3 or 4 the bjj guy is gonna get trashed. cause the higher levels incorporate other arts. and alot of combatives guys either
cross train or have experience in different styles.
I was really just referring to the basic combatives course that everyone in the military goes through during basic, not the guys who continue it and move up through the ranks.
I'm just gonna say it and people are gonna be pissed but there's a reason they teach BJJ to the army. It's a simple martial art. It's very popular in MMA and Pride and UFC. The army sees it as effective in a ring against another fighter and right now BJJ and MMA is the flavor of the month (decade).
In a bar fight the two drunks fight eachother. They try for shots from far away trying to hit eachother with the knockout punch. Then they get too close to one another and tackle eachother to the ground until one wins. In BJJ there's a lot of throws and chokes and grappling involved but that's what it boils down to. The army doesn't have time to teach the fine points of martial arts. That takes a lifetime to achieve. They want a bunch of guys who they can teach a martial art style to that's not that different from what they would do naturally in a fight.
No the U.S. Army had a great system based off the old Fairborn/Applegate stuff, it was a mix of Judo, Karate and plain old grutter fighting. It works just as easily as the modern combatives and does far more damage in a fight.
Gracie Combatives/GJJ/BJJ was chosen for low-intensity the military term for none-combative situations such as police actions and crowd crontrol. I even quoted that from the U.S. Army manual on combatives. This fact alone proves my point.
More so, who said two soldiers on a battlefield will be reacting like two drunk guys in a bar? What does two drunk guys wrestling in bar have to do with interpersonal warfare? Why even bother to pitch the same sales line for BJJ in a thread focusing on modern combatives? and where is Waldo; we gave up looking for Osama? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by john55
I was really just referring to the basic combatives course that everyone in the military goes through during basic, not the guys who continue it and move up through the ranks.
So was I, the U.S. Marines have a martial arts program with belt rank and everything. They do incorperate some BJJ concepts, but thats dealing primarily with specific concepts from BJJ and not a specific system. The U.S. Army teaches the Gracie Combatives program in basic and unless your an NCO corperal or higher you never see the rest of the Army combatives system. Which addresses another point of mine...
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My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
The are various documentary's that depict modern military unarmed combat. You can check them out for free on you tube. The army rangers for instance use a heavy mix of bjj in their hand to hand combat style.
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Everything I know in life, I learned from watching the Fall Guy.
The are various documentary's that depict modern military unarmed combat. You can check them out for free on you tube. The army rangers for instance use a heavy mix of bjj in their hand to hand combat style.
The Army Rangers use the same hand to hand as the everyone else in Army. Despite popular myth, the U.S. Army Rangers are not "Rambo" they are a commando-style unit. The Rangers get the same ranger schools is just living off the land classes for infantry soldiers, and allot more physically tougher.
Though a ranger tab will get you into other schools faster...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
The Army Rangers use the same hand to hand as the everyone else in Army. Despite popular myth, the U.S. Army Rangers are not "Rambo" they are a commando-style unit. The Rangers get the same ranger schools is just living off the land classes for infantry soldiers, and allot more physically tougher.
Though a ranger tab will get you into other schools faster...
To add to that, I just recently spoke to a retired navy seal and he said that their open hand to hand combat is limited and a lot of their combat includes using weapons instead. He also said they are taught that if they lose their weapons they are dead if they get into a fight because their enemies have them. He told me the key was to have your weapon and know how to use it. He said he didnt bother the hand to hand stuff to much.
The Army Rangers use the same hand to hand as the everyone else in Army. Despite popular myth, the U.S. Army Rangers are not "Rambo" they are a commando-style unit. The Rangers get the same ranger schools is just living off the land classes for infantry soldiers, and allot more physically tougher.
Though a ranger tab will get you into other schools faster...
A good friend of mine was 11-13 Bravo in Desert storm and a Ranger so I know a bit more about rangers. I never thought they were Rambo. Besides Rambo was a green beret and a former member of delta group and could kill you with his thoughts.
__________________
I'm a shark, the ground game is my ocean. And most people don't know how to swim. Oh yeah and I can knock you out too
Everything I know in life, I learned from watching the Fall Guy.
A good friend of mine was 11-13 Bravo in Desert storm and a Ranger so I know a bit more about rangers. I never thought they were Rambo. Besides Rambo was a green beret and a former member of delta group and could kill you with his thoughts.
That last part it totally true.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
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A good friend of mine was 11-13 Bravo in Desert storm and a Ranger so I know a bit more about rangers. I never thought they were Rambo. Besides Rambo was a green beret and a former member of delta group and could kill you with his thoughts.
Rambo's accomplishments from wikipedia. He sounds like one bad a$$ MF:
The fictional character of John J. Rambo was born on July 6, 1947 in Bowie, Arizona to a Native American Navajo father and a mother of German descent. Rambo graduated from Rangeford High School in 1965, and then was drafted into the United States Army at the age of 18 on January 2, 1966. He was deployed to South Vietnam in September of 1966. He returned to the U.S. in 1967 and began training in the Special Forces (Green Berets) at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In late 1969, Rambo was re-deployed to Vietnam. In November 1971, he was captured by North Vietnamese forces near the Chinese-Vietnamese border and held at a POW camp, where he and other American POWs were repeatedly tortured. Rambo escaped captivity in May 1972, but was then re-deployed.
Upon his return to the U.S., Rambo discovered that many American civilians hated the returning soldiers, and he himself was subject to humiliation and embarrassment by having anti-war "hippies" throw garbage at him and calling him "baby killer". His experiences in Vietnam and back home resulted in an extreme case of post-traumatic stress disorder. At the same time, inner questions of self identity and reflectiveness cause Rambo to lash out at society rather than handling difficult situations in a "civilized" manner.
[edit] Awards
Per dialogue in Rambo: First Blood Part II, during his Vietnam era service, Rambo was awarded:
* 2 - Silver Star
* 4 - Bronze Stars for Valor
* 4 - Purple Heart
* 1 - Distinguished Service Cross
* 1 - Medal of Honor
This is, apparently, only a partial listing of Rambo's honors as in a deleted scene from Rambo III, Rambo's "Class A" uniform can clearly be seen with the following 13 ribbons:
* Medal of Honor - Awarded two and refused another
* Army Distinguished Service Medal
* Distinguished Flying Cross
* Soldier's Medal
* Bronze Star
* Purple Heart
* Air Medal
* Combat Action Ribbon - This award is actually for US Navy, Coast Guard and Marine personnel, so this could be either an error on part of the film makers or Rambo could have possibly been awarded one for a joint-service operation.
* Vietnam Service Medal
* Prisoner of War Medal
* Army Service Ribbon
* Vietnam Wound Medal
* Vietnam Campaign Medal
In a measure of discontinuity within the storyline, Rambo's Silver Stars and Distinguished Service Cross were missing from his ribbon rack as well as the National Defense Medal and the Good Conduct Medal, both of which he would have been awarded.
Various special duty badges can also be seen on Rambo's "Class A" uniform, including:
Rambo's accomplishments from wikipedia. He sounds like one bad a$$ MF:
The fictional character of John J. Rambo was born on July 6, 1947 in Bowie, Arizona to a Native American Navajo father and a mother of German descent. Rambo graduated from Rangeford High School in 1965, and then was drafted into the United States Army at the age of 18 on January 2, 1966. He was deployed to South Vietnam in September of 1966. He returned to the U.S. in 1967 and began training in the Special Forces (Green Berets) at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In late 1969, Rambo was re-deployed to Vietnam. In November 1971, he was captured by North Vietnamese forces near the Chinese-Vietnamese border and held at a POW camp, where he and other American POWs were repeatedly tortured. Rambo escaped captivity in May 1972, but was then re-deployed.
Upon his return to the U.S., Rambo discovered that many American civilians hated the returning soldiers, and he himself was subject to humiliation and embarrassment by having anti-war "hippies" throw garbage at him and calling him "baby killer". His experiences in Vietnam and back home resulted in an extreme case of post-traumatic stress disorder. At the same time, inner questions of self identity and reflectiveness cause Rambo to lash out at society rather than handling difficult situations in a "civilized" manner.
[edit] Awards
Per dialogue in Rambo: First Blood Part II, during his Vietnam era service, Rambo was awarded:
* 2 - Silver Star
* 4 - Bronze Stars for Valor
* 4 - Purple Heart
* 1 - Distinguished Service Cross
* 1 - Medal of Honor
This is, apparently, only a partial listing of Rambo's honors as in a deleted scene from Rambo III, Rambo's "Class A" uniform can clearly be seen with the following 13 ribbons:
* Medal of Honor - Awarded two and refused another
* Army Distinguished Service Medal
* Distinguished Flying Cross
* Soldier's Medal
* Bronze Star
* Purple Heart
* Air Medal
* Combat Action Ribbon - This award is actually for US Navy, Coast Guard and Marine personnel, so this could be either an error on part of the film makers or Rambo could have possibly been awarded one for a joint-service operation. * Vietnam Service Medal
* Prisoner of War Medal
* Army Service Ribbon
* Vietnam Wound Medal
* Vietnam Campaign Medal
In a measure of discontinuity within the storyline, Rambo's Silver Stars and Distinguished Service Cross were missing from his ribbon rack as well as the National Defense Medal and the Good Conduct Medal, both of which he would have been awarded.
Various special duty badges can also be seen on Rambo's "Class A" uniform, including:
I just want to, once and for all, clear up this topic and put it to rest.
The Army went to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for one reason:
We get the hot chicks.
Lol, it probably does help. I tend to get the 'Your crazy for doing that' reaction, which I know chicks like...if only I was in college again...because as my wife says 'I liked that badboy attitude at first when we were 20, but now that weve been together for 8 years, I dont find that stuff attractive anymore'.
I will admit though, even guys that I am friends with from high school/college think that I am a bada$$ for doing BJJ, even though I try to explain that I get submitted 24/7. And when I show them how to do a RNC or Triangle choke, they think I am an expert even though I explain these are the basics and first things you learn. I guess since the basics are what they see in UFC, they are impressed.
Concept & Context why the US Army went to BJJ...
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