Ashida Kim

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Gambatte Karate

I would rather have watched this video: YouTube - Ladies wrestling in Vegas

Even more now, I think Ashida Kim is a fraud. Yes, some of the things he teaches are useful and plausable, but it seems that most of it is watered down regular ole karate. Nothing special to it. As for his little walk in the forest (sentry removal techniques), I find it completely full of crap. Try any of those things in real life, and you will be shot. No way is a "sentry" going to be out in the middle of a field all alone. Further, there is no way they would fall for a rock in the pond or puddle of water.

Its called an LP/OP Listening Post/Observation Post and never under estimate the stupidity of others. Sadly that is sound in principle since the military teachs something similar...

Just a thought...

[Gambatte Karate]

Originally Posted by Draven

Its called an LP/OP Listening Post/Observation Post and never under estimate the stupidity of others. Sadly that is sound in principle since the military teachs something similar...

Just a thought...

I was never in spec ops, BUT....I DO know that we never had any sort of training on the things he was doing. Now, our snipers....Well, they are virtually INVISIBLE when they wear their guilly (sp) suits and WANT to be. When I went through training for watch duty....it consisted of "Here's your gun. Challenge anyone who approaches with **********. If they don't answer with the proper response, call for help."

WTF??

So, yes....stupidity can and DOES run rampant in the military....but generally speaking, no-one of AVERAGE intelligence will fall for the things he shows/demonstrates.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Gambatte Karate

I was never in spec ops, BUT....I DO know that we never had any sort of training on the things he was doing. Now, our snipers....Well, they are virtually INVISIBLE when they wear their guilly (sp) suits and WANT to be. When I went through training for watch duty....it consisted of "Here's your gun. Challenge anyone who approaches with **********. If they don't answer with the proper response, call for help."

WTF??

So, yes....stupidity can and DOES run rampant in the military....but generally speaking, no-one of AVERAGE intelligence will fall for the things he shows/demonstrates.

I was never SF either, but I was infantry and light infantry scout. In infantry school they taught us the LP/OP stuff which was commonly two guys but if you stayed in an LP/OP for a few days your buddy team had to work out a sleep schedule. I don't think the sentry removal was to be taken literally just more based on concept principles.

I've seen a Bussey video similar to this where Bussey basically walks around behind a guy an vanishes by rolling into a ball. You'd be surprised how easily you can become "invisible" just by sitting somewhere quietly. lol

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Draven

I was never SF either, but I was infantry and light infantry scout. In infantry school they taught us the LP/OP stuff which was commonly two guys but if you stayed in an LP/OP for a few days your buddy team had to work out a sleep schedule. I don't think the sentry removal was to be taken literally just more based on concept principles.

I've seen a Bussey video similar to this where Bussey basically walks around behind a guy an vanishes by rolling into a ball. You'd be surprised how easily you can become "invisible" just by sitting somewhere quietly. lol

On work experience, I did an Army insight course, and there was a treck we did at... Wow... No idea about the time but I guess it was 9pm. We walked around while some trained soldier just crept around us, we could hear noises but couldn't see squat. It's bloody scary, and you start getting paranoid, especially if you can't put your glasses to use and all you see is blurs.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

Originally Posted by Draven

Shinobi, here is the problem...

While people may argue the Takamatsu false ninja lineage, by claiming the Bugei ryuha daijiten is not the absolute source. It is the same source they point to say that Seiko Fujita did not pass on his Koga Ryu Wada-Ha system. He never did; however he changed the name with the modernization of the system to Koga Ha Sato Ryu Ninjutsu; which was taught only to the Commandos and Spies from Nakano.

While Jinichi Kawakami is a historian and researcher unless he was trained at Nakano or from someone previously trained there he doesn't have a connection to Seiko Fujita or Koga Ryu Wada Ha Ninjutsu (The origional family style)or Koga Ha Sato Ryu Ninjutsu (The modernization taught to Commandos at Nakano). So he is questionable at best his authenticity is often propetated by the Iga Ryu Musium which is a tourist attraction and not an education (natural history) institution...

Now on the issue of Ashida Kim's Koga Hai Lung Ryu which you asked about, ashida opens states on his site he had learned Shotokan Karate, Judo, Wrestling, Kung-fu, & TKD before learning ninjitsu due to his father being stationed in the military. He even states that the ninjitsu he learned was primarily stealth based, and that he has intigrated all those aspects into his own system.

As for who taught he claims an individual by the name of Shendai. Considering that members of the Nakano School evaded being charged with war crimes because they had intelligence which was used until the end of the Cold War era & that their methods was adapted by the U.S. & British military (the reason that British SAS claimed training in ninjutsu before anyone else did in the late 70s).

It is perfectly plausable that he could have been taught something? Just as it is perfectly plausable that Takamatsu & Hatsumi are legitimate as well. The thing, that is important to remember is that while your right the martial arts organizations are bias in there own politics. The thing is independant researchers from government ran natural history museums do not reconize anyone as proven authentic ninjutsu.

Even then, you can trace judo to ninjutsu (Kano trained with both Takamatsu and Fujita). The important thing is not the history of school, which means nothing in itself if it can't be proven. Which it is not. The importance as Norton stated is how effective it seems.

YouTube - Ninja Sentry Removal Techniques 1 of 5

YouTube - Kinji-Te, the Forbidden Fist of the Ninja

As for Broussard; you do realize he is crippled right? That he has suffer some kind of low back and hip injury from a car crash. So he is basically demonstrating ninjitsu for the handicapped. I think showing him is somewhat a one sided distortion of the facts. Also he isn't a student of Ashida Kim's ninjitsu style, but a friend whoom Ashida respects for his own personal achievements in practicing martial arts with a significant physical handicap.

yeah, some people use the bugei ryuha daijiten reference contracditorily which as you said is a problem.

i was wondering what you mean by original family style. since theres different branches of the Koga line thats why i usually mention Jinichi's as Ban-family which

indicates they are from a separate branch an most likely no connections.

Shendai...ok i heard that name before. sounds like a Chinese name. now this part is interesting an i just noticed something
from what you was typing. it is plausible that Shendai could

be an Ex-Nakano Spy school member who changed his name to Shendai while goin underground which is a common thing for people in that job field to do an he taught a young Ashida something...would that be the case?

i agree somewhat on the history not being important in a sense. but i dont like the Hatsumi/ Takamatsu fraud claim....

one thing that people tend to forget is ninjutsu history is usually purposely shrouded in mystery to throw people off. some organizations may say some things like the Koryu...who Hatsumi ignores like they ignore him an

some peeps in the government. and usually they get ignored too. it serves different purposes depending on how you look at it, like with the Hollywood an popular media deal.

my Instructors use that as a way to weed out prospective students cause we dont advertise our dojo an people come to train by invitation. cause some of the guys who do come through.....ive seen some nut-jobs who really want to be Naruto....or Joe Armstrong (American Ninja)...


I agree on effectiveness being important. like with Ninjutsu....suppose it was made up....for a made up art it sure has influenced and had quite an effect on thousands of practicioners worldwide

with friendships, networking, people in Law enforcement and Military depending on it during combat and life threatening situations, and bringing people together from different walks of life.

sure we got some fruitcakes who have fruadulent tendencies, but thats on those individuals an not the whole org..or the whole Art

I know Broussard is Handicapped. i always thought he was a senior student of Ashida's. his style is....odd i can see the grappling part. but all those hand motions for the stand up part seems silly an not effective

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

Originally Posted by Draven

YouTube - Ninja Sentry Removal Techniques 1 of 5

YouTube - Kinji-Te, the Forbidden Fist of the Ninja

i forgot to mention that lineage plays a part in quality of instruction and effectiveness of a particular art.

like BJJ for example. if you say you do BJJ and that your a purple belt, other BJJ guys are gonna ask you who do u train under, who do they train under, how long you been training, stuff like that. they have a data base where they can punch in names an look u up quickly to see if your legit.

with Bujinkan i ask people who do they train under an if im not familiar with the Master, ill ask one of mines an i can see if they come from a ****ty school or a circle who doesnt really follow Hatsumi or Nagato or Niguchi an the other Top Masters.

this is more difficult with some other styles.


the first video clip, the ninja sentry removal seemed tacky...ok why are u gonna run around in broad daylight in a black suit for this training exercise LOL. he coulda used the earth element a little better in blending with surroundings

throwing metsubishi into the sentry's face is cool...but not serve much purpose if you throw it against the wind.

some of the stuff he was doing could get someone killed, like expecting to knock someone out like in the movies with a front kick to the face. this is what i mean by Bad Karate with some ninja-theatrics


the other entry techniques such as the cross step and climbing , rolls were cool though an is very common in militay ops



now for the Kata Dante....ima go on this one cause of his funny comment about it being comprised of the deadliest poison hand techniques known to man


1st technique: why block the strike in that manner, thats something a typical karate or kung fu person would do. his body posture makes him susceptible to being pushed off-balance by the attacker. the attackers

skeletal structure isnt postitioned correctly and his balance isnt off-balance correctly for a follow through, this should be the first step after countering especially in arts like ninjutsu, aikido, jujutsu


while he is striking to the arm of the strike...too much attention is on that arm....what about his other arm? he is also not protecting his face...or body for that matter from the attackers other arm...or a head butt.

finally we're getting somewhere with the palm strike...but all that other stuff prior to it was too much waisted motion....hell

he couldve done that right from the jump.

rip the attacker's ear off.....no comment

arm lock + follow ups......coulda done that in the begining

i find it hard to believe that a skinny man is gonna break someone's shoulder with a knife hand chop

ive seen my skinny as a twig class mates jack up people's spines with a stomp......but the shoulder chop is out there

the other strikes after rolling over the attacker on his back seems overkill an ive noticed that with demos from the different Koga schools...they go above an beyond

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

yeah, some people use the bugei ryuha daijiten reference contracditorily which as you said is a problem.

i was wondering what you mean by original family style. since theres different branches of the Koga line thats why i usually mention Jinichi's as Ban-family which

indicates they are from a separate branch an most likely no connections.

Seiko Fujita was taught Koga Ryu (Koga School) Wada-Ha (Wada-Family) Ninjutsu, but he was also a Soke in Sato Ryu Nan Ban Kenpo. When Seiko Fujita was an instructor at Nakano he made the observation that Wada Ha Ninjutsu had very limited jujutsu and lack combat skills. So he combined that Jujutsu with the Kenpo style he was also a Soke of. But only a handful of people learned the moderized ninjutsu mostly those who were students of Nakano. When I seen the Koga Ryu Ban-Ha Ninjutsu I immideately thought of Sato Nan Ban Ryu Kenpo.

Also from everything I've seen on Jinichi he has no ninjutsu training outside of being self taught.

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

Shendai...ok i heard that name before. sounds like a Chinese name. now this part is interesting an i just noticed something
from what you was typing. it is plausible that Shendai could

be an Ex-Nakano Spy school member who changed his name to Shendai while goin underground which is a common thing for people in that job field to do an he taught a young Ashida something...would that be the case?

All I know is that from Ashida, Shendai was ninjitsu teacher and US Army Intelligence. He was Chinese & Native Hawaian, but was able to pass off as Japanese, Korean or Okinawan if he wanted.

Since Ashida claims Shendai was military intelligence, a great deal of our post world war two military intelliegence docturine did evolve in part from the Nakano Schools docturine of operation. Its possible that Shendai was a former student of Nakano (Since many of them did become operatives of the CIA years later) or that he was simply some MI guy who did allot of research and taught Ashida some stuff.

The problem is Ashida is very secretive about Shendai and exactly what he was taught. From what I can gather, Ashida trained in several different MAs and was only 16 when he first was intoduced to Ninjitsu.

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

I agree on effectiveness being important. like with Ninjutsu....suppose it was made up....for a made up art it sure has influenced and had quite an effect on thousands of practicioners worldwide

with friendships, networking, people in Law enforcement and Military depending on it during combat and life threatening situations, and bringing people together from different walks of life.

Thats the thing, dispite popular belief you have some high ranking members of the Bujin who work/train with Ashida Kim. There is quite abit of communication between the two groups and for the most part they get along.

The whole Bujinkan/Ashida Kim thing started over Hayes claiming Ashida was a fake. So to prove he wasn't Ashida had a student seek up on Hayes and tap him on the back (that point between the shoulder blades that can knock your breath out of you or cause temp paralysis if you hit it hard enough).

The idea being that if a student could sneak up on a ninja master and deliever a possible "death touch" (vital point strike) that would prove the effectiveness. That only ticked Hayes off and started a flame war basically. I believe on of Bussey's students did something similar.

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

sure we got some fruitcakes who have fruadulent tendencies, but thats on those individuals an not the whole org..or the whole Art

I know Broussard is Handicapped. i always thought he was a senior student of Ashida's. his style is....odd i can see the grappling part. but all those hand motions for the stand up part seems silly an not effective

Broussard was a senior student of Ashida Kim, but he is not an exclusive student of Ashida Kim. Broussard is head of the Komuso Ryu Ninjitsu system, a modern estoric system based loosely off of Ashida's ninjitsu but also 5 animal kung-fu and a few other systems.

So while Broussard is a senior student of Ashida's (3rd Dan) his methods draw from other systems. Also while Ashida isn't clear on his beliefs, as he teaches both the mystic claims and the science behind his techniques Broussard iis more infavor of the mystical stuff. I think has to do with a) the fact that he was told he wouldn't be able to walk but did anyway, even if at great difficulty b) the fact that he focuses more on the mental aspects and c) his religious beliefs.

Thats said Broussard's hand form was a series of blocks/traps that was a mix of karate, monkey and snake kung-fu.

[Draven]

Oh I didn't see the other stuff...

On the Sentry Removal; you can't do a video in the dark. Especially back in 80s when it was filmed. I can't argue with the kick to head thing, I though that was in bad taste as well. But is was intended to display a concept not be literal.

On the Kata Dante; bare in mind it is a kata a form. So its pre-arranged to teach concept and not to be taken literally, much like every other kata on the planet. Ashida actually teaches three main katas a 5 element form comprised of 5 shorter forms, the kata dante and the Mi Lu Kata which is pretty cool.

But they are forms and not to be taken literally they teach a concept. If I ever fight someone who reverts to kata in a fight, I'm gonna pants them lol...

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

Originally Posted by Draven

Seiko Fujita was taught Koga Ryu (Koga School) Wada-Ha (Wada-Family) Ninjutsu, but he was also a Soke in Sato Ryu Nan Ban Kenpo. When Seiko Fujita was an instructor at Nakano he made the observation that Wada Ha Ninjutsu had very limited jujutsu and lack combat skills. So he combined that Jujutsu with the Kenpo style he was also a Soke of. But only a handful of people learned the moderized ninjutsu mostly those who were students of Nakano. When I seen the Koga Ryu Ban-Ha Ninjutsu I immideately thought of Sato Nan Ban Ryu Kenpo.

Also from everything I've seen on Jinichi he has no ninjutsu training outside of being self taught.



All I know is that from Ashida, Shendai was ninjitsu teacher and US Army Intelligence. He was Chinese & Native Hawaian, but was able to pass off as Japanese, Korean or Okinawan if he wanted.

Since Ashida claims Shendai was military intelligence, a great deal of our post world war two military intelliegence docturine did evolve in part from the Nakano Schools docturine of operation. Its possible that Shendai was a former student of Nakano (Since many of them did become operatives of the CIA years later) or that he was simply some MI guy who did allot of research and taught Ashida some stuff.

The problem is Ashida is very secretive about Shendai and exactly what he was taught. From what I can gather, Ashida trained in several different MAs and was only 16 when he first was intoduced to Ninjitsu.



Thats the thing, dispite popular belief you have some high ranking members of the Bujin who work/train with Ashida Kim. There is quite abit of communication between the two groups and for the most part they get along.

The whole Bujinkan/Ashida Kim thing started over Hayes claiming Ashida was a fake. So to prove he wasn't Ashida had a student seek up on Hayes and tap him on the back (that point between the shoulder blades that can knock your breath out of you or cause temp paralysis if you hit it hard enough).

The idea being that if a student could sneak up on a ninja master and deliever a possible "death touch" (vital point strike) that would prove the effectiveness. That only ticked Hayes off and started a flame war basically. I believe on of Bussey's students did something similar.



Broussard was a senior student of Ashida Kim, but he is not an exclusive student of Ashida Kim. Broussard is head of the Komuso Ryu Ninjitsu system, a modern estoric system based loosely off of Ashida's ninjitsu but also 5 animal kung-fu and a few other systems.

So while Broussard is a senior student of Ashida's (3rd Dan) his methods draw from other systems. Also while Ashida isn't clear on his beliefs, as he teaches both the mystic claims and the science behind his techniques Broussard iis more infavor of the mystical stuff. I think has to do with a) the fact that he was told he wouldn't be able to walk but did anyway, even if at great difficulty b) the fact that he focuses more on the mental aspects and c) his religious beliefs.

Thats said Broussard's hand form was a series of blocks/traps that was a mix of karate, monkey and snake kung-fu.

Self taught...hmmm im still looking into that. interesting most of Jinichi stuff, the rest that im trying to cover is in Japanese and ive been waiting on one of my buddies over there to translate his material for me.

she did translate one page but i think shes gettin cyber-fatigued lol.

if Shendai could come out of hiding, that would clear things up..if he exists which throws a monkey wrench into the claims of some Masters with mysterious teachers

in this case its open to some possibilities like he might not really exist, too dangerous for him so must stay underground etc.

Ashida Kim does say that he has no "beef" with Hatsumi an i dont recall him ever saying anything bad about him. its the other people like Robert Law....but not so much directly

usually arguments come from members sometimes im like why not work together more, both parties can keep doing there thing but just work together more cause after all Koga and Iga are cousins but the orgs are so vast an big with all kind

of characters that its a lost cause i guess. i trip sometimes myself. the Hayes/ Ashida debacle i find quite funny.

but doesnt really surprise me much cause it took Hayes like...3 times or more to pass his Saki test for example....dude got the **** whacked out his head.

i dont remember the Bussey incident....only remember when he who is regarded as Odd by alot of senior peeps i talked to got converted back to Jesus and found Eastern Esoterics to be demonic an started talking trash

so...Hatsumi said that if ever showed his face in Japan again talking ****, to beat him within an inch of his life....something along those lines

does Broussard have a website?

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

Originally Posted by Draven

Oh I didn't see the other stuff...

On the Sentry Removal; you can't do a video in the dark. Especially back in 80s when it was filmed. I can't argue with the kick to head thing, I though that was in bad taste as well. But is was intended to display a concept not be literal.

On the Kata Dante; bare in mind it is a kata a form. So its pre-arranged to teach concept and not to be taken literally, much like every other kata on the planet. Ashida actually teaches three main katas a 5 element form comprised of 5 shorter forms, the kata dante and the Mi Lu Kata which is pretty cool.

But they are forms and not to be taken literally they teach a concept. If I ever fight someone who reverts to kata in a fight, I'm gonna pants them lol...

granted you cant do a video in the dark especially with the quality of 80s camcorders being wack

but for a daylight sentry operation his outfit coulda been better suited for blending in with surroundings as the historical ninja did. prolly wasnt a big issue for sake of demo but...


ok i get the concept of kata dante though i think it still has too much influence from the other arts and bad/risky posture

yea...someone who reverts back to kata deserves to be pants...or a wedgie

[Draven]

Broussard does have a web site, he teaches under Komuso Ryu. As for Shendai, thats an issue. Ashida doesn't even know ehre the guy is at. Which means he could a) be made up b) in hiding or c) just went of business and is retired chilling somewhere or dead.

As far as I know Jinichi has not revealed his teacher's name and so he has been acused of teaching himself from the older scrolls. On the Iga-Ryu Ninja Museum site it give no historic information and says that Jinichi is the only true heir to the Iga & Koka Ryu Ninjutsu systems. So I have to wounder if thats similar to Sho Kosugi being the only true ninja to star in 80s pop-ninja-culture lol...

Well dispite the internet BS Ashida does work with several members of the Bujinkan and even a few NHB/MMA schools. Since Ashida is a fan of cross training, so he uses whatever works, Ashida has even intermixed wrestling with his system and had as far back as in the 70s. I think Ashida mixed Ninjitsu with Wrestling, Boxing, Judo, Karate, Kung-fu, TKD and Dim Mak (under the John Keehan/Count Dante system.) Which was in a large way about everything avilable in the 60s and 70s.

Like I said in another thread allot of

[nykaratelvr23]

It's sad that there are those out there who see the martial arts as a cash crop or a way of saying "Hey look at me I made a martial arts style!" Anyone could mix different martial arts and yes that is how some have come to be but the people who do that have studied the styles they mix so they know how to blend this with that. Ashida Kim is like a cook who throws different things in the pot and say that it is a delicious soup that everyone loves when it could be the nastiest tasting stuff ever. I know I am ranting and saying things everyone else is saying but people like this guy get under my skin because I love the martial arts and here you have a guy who just sees money signs from it.

[Them's Fighting Words]

Dope. Wish I had found this thread before I introduced myself to Takeshi. You ninjas are so secretive....

Originally Posted by Gambatte Karate

I would rather have watched this video: YouTube - Ladies wrestling in Vegas

Thanks for that Ladies Wrestling in Vegas link. Used up the last of my month's fast speeed broadband on it. Now gonna have to wait a couple of weeks to look at the other links.

Originally Posted by Gambatte Karate

I was never in spec ops, BUT....I DO know that we never had any sort of training on the things he was doing. Now, our snipers....Well, they are virtually INVISIBLE when they wear their guilly (sp) suits and WANT to be. When I went through training for watch duty....it consisted of "Here's your gun. Challenge anyone who approaches with **********. If they don't answer with the proper response, call for help."

WTF??

So, yes....stupidity can and DOES run rampant in the military....but generally speaking, no-one of AVERAGE intelligence will fall for the things he shows/demonstrates.

Lol. You American's crack me up. That's pretty much what I got from friends who went to South East Asia. You go to some American posts and there's one or two guys. You answer in English or you get a warning and / or shot at.

Seriously though, a bud of mine is Ex-Marine and when he came here to Australia and did Sniper training, he was pretty amazed at how much re-learning he had to do. Another bud of mine also went through Sniper training and some of the stuff he showed me was pretty "ninja". Then again he studied Iado and Ninjutsu too. Then there's a Gurkha I once had the pleasure of meeting....

So not meaning any offence to the rank and file military, but a lot of the not so rank and file do delve into some incredible stealth techniques. If ninjas were there pinnacle of stealth, I can't see why thier techniques wouldn't be included in modern military training for more elite units. I've seen Kali in the military so many times so why not ninjutsu?

[Gambatte Karate]

Originally Posted by Them's Fighting Words

Seriously though, a bud of mine is Ex-Marine

I call BS on this one. Once a Marine, ALWAYS A MARINE! There is no such thingas an "EX-Marine". On to the other subject though...The military here does and learns different things than the Austrailian military. (for obvious reasons) Typically, this type of stuff is not taught to the regular grunts. Only to spec ops, and even then...Not too often do they learn any "ninjitsu". The Navy SEALs do a lot of covert ops and are trained in the art of silence and deception. None of what they do encompases "ninjitsu". And, I'm fairly certain that NONE of the American Armed forces teach their men to roll into a ball and be still. Why not? Because tactics like this typically do not work.


p.s. quit watching porn, and you might have some high speed i-net time left for the month. LOL J/K