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General Martial ArtsDiscuss General Martial Arts here
In a boxing class I am not considered a good boxer until I can box someone else. I may have the best bag and mitt work in the world, but that doesn't mean I'm good if I can't win a fight in the ring/mat/street.
Same with kickboxing.
Same with Muay Thai.
Same with wrestling.
Same with Judo.
Same with BJJ.
Same with Krav Maga.
Same with RBSD systems.
So next time you are asked to test for your promotion, if you are handed a list of katas you need to perform to get the promotion you are practicing a TMA.
And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying that's how I define it.
See I don't necessarily like Joes definition because all so called TMAs, only claim tradition and because of the sport apsect; point sparring, forms competition, even full contact sparring, have limited their techniques and training methods. Are those traditional or just watered modern versions that claim tradition?
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My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
See I don't necessarily like Joes definition because all so called TMAs, only claim tradition and because of the sport apsect; point sparring, forms competition, even full contact sparring, have limited their techniques and training methods. Are those traditional or just watered modern versions that claim tradition?
I don't assign the word "Traditional" in it's literal traslation. In other words, I don't think that the term "traditional" in TMA has anything to do with their history, length of time in existence, or amount of tradition contained within the training itself.
I think the definition has more to do with what we, and by we I mean Western Civilization mostly, have come to think of when we think of "Martial Arts". Ask anyone on the street what they think of when they think of "Martial Arts" and you will be painted a picture of a TKD or Karate school. This is what "Traditional" means to me.
If we are going to use their amount of tradition and length of time in existence as criteria, then FOR SURE wrestling and boxing are a TMA!!
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
I don't assign the word "Traditional" in it's literal traslation. In other words, I don't think that the term "traditional" in TMA has anything to do with their history, length of time in existence, or amount of tradition contained within the training itself.
I think the definition has more to do with what we, and by we I mean Western Civilization mostly, have come to think of when we think of "Martial Arts". Ask anyone on the street what they think of when they think of "Martial Arts" and you will be painted a picture of a TKD or Karate school. This is what "Traditional" means to me.
If we are going to use their amount of tradition and length of time in existence as criteria, then FOR SURE wrestling and boxing are a TMA!!
This is why when I tell people I practice BJJ they ask me what belt I am, are surprised when I say white. The next question is do you and can you break boards. Then they tell me how their 9 year kid is a higher belt and can break boards an inch thick in his TKD/Karate class. This is what people picture when they think of MAs.
Joe, I see where you're coming from. I prefer to judge an MA by it's intended goal, which is where I tick off the so called TMA guys. Since to me tradition either implies you are staying to the origional concepts of the art or practicing the older methods as an academic study.
Which to me means most traditional Shotokan schools are frauds in that they don't either a) keep to Funakoshi's origional format or b) keep to Funakoshi's origional intentions. I consider most TMA Shotokan schools as sport martial arts, since they prefer to focus on winning point sparring tournaments. Hey its sport even if it sucks...
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My Personal Mantra:
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Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
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Just as there are incorrect perceptions of what martial arts are, as in John55's post, I believe there are a lot of incorrect perceptions of 'traditional' martial arts. The true traditional schools I know do require a person to be able to apply thier martial ability on fully resisting opponents. Yes it is true that these schools also have forms that must be learned, but the forms are a tool of training, not the focus of training. To make forms or katas the focus of a school is to miss the broader picture. That would be similiar to saying that core training for bjj is what BJJ is all about. Any school that calls itself traditional, yet focuses on kata is not traditional, but more modern in its teaching.
Just as there are incorrect perceptions of what martial arts are, as in John55's post, I believe there are a lot of incorrect perceptions of 'traditional' martial arts. The true traditional schools I know do require a person to be able to apply thier martial ability on fully resisting opponents. Yes it is true that these schools also have forms that must be learned, but the forms are a tool of training, not the focus of training. To make forms or katas the focus of a school is to miss the broader picture. That would be similiar to saying that core training for bjj is what BJJ is all about. Any school that calls itself traditional, yet focuses on kata is not traditional, but more modern in its teaching.
I agree, that's why I was saying it's really more about the school than the art.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
Joe, I see where you're coming from. I prefer to judge an MA by it's intended goal, which is where I tick off the so called TMA guys. Since to me tradition either implies you are staying to the origional concepts of the art or practicing the older methods as an academic study.
Which to me means most traditional Shotokan schools are frauds in that they don't either a) keep to Funakoshi's origional format or b) keep to Funakoshi's origional intentions. I consider most TMA Shotokan schools as sport martial arts, since they prefer to focus on winning point sparring tournaments. Hey its sport even if it sucks...
Yeah, I get that perspective as well and knew that it was the difference in the definition that was causing the bulk of the disagreements. Going with your definition, then the BJJ/GJJ war fits into that category as well.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
I checked out a judo/karate school a while back. The class was a combination of striking, throwing, and grappling with full intensity judo and grappling sparring. They said they stopped doing forms years ago and just focused on fighting now. I would not have considered the school a TMA.
Yeah, I get that perspective as well and knew that it was the difference in the definition that was causing the bulk of the disagreements. Going with your definition, then the BJJ/GJJ war fits into that category as well.
Thats the beauty if definitions, BJJ can be both TMA, Sport MA & Combat MA depending on how its taught. Thats why I call allot of TMAs as neo-traditionalism, they use the name to draw in those seeking a tradition but at the same time try to redfine that tradition as something else.
The same thing is seen in BJJ schools, some focus on BJJ for street fighting and other for MMA. As such one may more well rounded then the other where as the other is focused on techniques that comply to the rules of competition.
Going with the fact that Gracie Combatives teaches the same techniques a student would learn up to blue belt; GJJ does have some striking more then some BJJ systems I've seen that focuses on winning in a grappling tournament or MMA event.
Yet GJJ does compete so it can be consider TMA, CMA (Comabt Martial Arts) & SMA, and I have no problem with classifying it as such. Since its how you intent to practice and apply an system that really defines how they operate.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
What defines a TMA from an MMA?
Good job bro
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