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General Martial ArtsDiscuss General Martial Arts here
Location: My location is so secret, I don't even know where I am.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykaratelvr23
Both are good styles and both have their ups and downs. MMA is good for one on one fighting while TMA is good for both one on one and group fighting. MMA has it's downs because it is a grappling art and if you are grappling one guy to the ground that leaves you open for an attack from another. TMA has it's downs also as it is a art that has a lot of stances and while you are on your feet you can still be injured. Basically they both are good and bad and it's a choice one must make. MMa or TMA. I personally choose TMA because grappling isn't really my thing and I've been around more TMA.
I may not be the biggest fan of MMA but I've seen enough MMA to know that a good MMA fighter can fight pretty well standing up if they need to.
Both are good styles and both have their ups and downs. MMA is good for one on one fighting while TMA is good for both one on one and group fighting. MMA has it's downs because it is a grappling art and if you are grappling one guy to the ground that leaves you open for an attack from another. TMA has it's downs also as it is a art that has a lot of stances and while you are on your feet you can still be injured. Basically they both are good and bad and it's a choice one must make. MMa or TMA. I personally choose TMA because grappling isn't really my thing and I've been around more TMA.
MMA isn't grappling. It's a mix. Watch the first few UFCs and you'll see how a grappler managed to own because everybody was stand up. MMA does have a large focus on grappling, but it is not a grappling martial art. Gina Carona, hottest girl in MMA, she started off in the MMA with a 12-1-1 Muay Thai record. A lot of MMA fighters start off with a stand up art, and a lot of MMA fighters start of with a grappling art. Current UFC welterweight champion, GSP started off with Kyokushin Karate.
Yes and no. Depends on what you've been trained to do and how good your opponant is. I've always found it easy to land elbows on the back of people's heads (or more correctly on the joints connecting head to neck). Also the only reason these rules are made is because someone has obviously been successfully employing them and harming their opponants.
No, the best defense against a takedown is a sprawl. if you have not been trained to sprawl and you get taken down, chances are you are arent trained to grapple either and you will be done for. You can hit the guy in the head 2 times with your elbow during the takedown but unless you sprawl, you are going down.
Both are good styles and both have their ups and downs. MMA is good for one on one fighting while TMA is good for both one on one and group fighting. MMA has it's downs because it is a grappling art and if you are grappling one guy to the ground that leaves you open for an attack from another. TMA has it's downs also as it is a art that has a lot of stances and while you are on your feet you can still be injured. Basically they both are good and bad and it's a choice one must make. MMa or TMA. I personally choose TMA because grappling isn't really my thing and I've been around more TMA.
NO STYLE IS GOOD FOR GROUP FIGHTING. Do you really think MMA guys cant fight multiple opponents better than a TMA guy? I suggest you train a few times at an MMA gym and your perspective will totally change. Not only is the training different but the types of people in mma gyms are different as well.
I'd rather be a good fighter. A good fighter can react to anything his opponent does and still counter.
Why anyone hasnt learned to grapple is beyond me. Of course I'm not good at it yet but I'm atleast trying to learn the basics of it atleast. There are waaaaaaaaay too many MMA enthusiasts out there to relie on standup alone.
You can pick up a lot of things just by watching MMA but that is nothing compared to actually learning how to roll.
A martial artist will always get more out full contact sparring than self defense drills, one steps, and especially worthless kata. Its called intensity people. If the drill doesnt invoke an adrenaline response than it wont prepare you for a fight at all.
__________________ The name means...No matter how many times you cut him, he will never fall. My soul cutter has no name, it is merely a tool.
I'll Still Kill!
Even the best of men are capable of the most disgusting evil. Just as the most evil man is capable of showing kindness.
Do not be fooled into thinking your enemy's sin is worse than yours, or that your's is better than his.
No, the best defense against a takedown is a sprawl. if you have not been trained to sprawl and you get taken down, chances are you are arent trained to grapple either and you will be done for. You can hit the guy in the head 2 times with your elbow during the takedown but unless you sprawl, you are going down.
Thats makes the assumption that a person doesn't want to go to the ground or wants to avoid the ground in the first place. I'm not saying your wrong, but for example; I've seen wrestlers go for a DLT (double leg takedown) and a judoka just go with it and hit the wrestler with a cross armbar for his trouble. I've seen BJJist go with the same takedown and hit someone with a guillotine choke, shoot I've seen Budda hit someone with a guillotine choke from the sprawl.
I'm sorry I just find it amusing to assume that just because TMAs don't cater to grappling and groundfighting specifically; notable exceptions to Judo, Jujitsu, Aikijujutsu depending on the school and a few other systems, that a TMA does not want to go to the ground. When I learned groundfighting in judo it was mostly taught from the guard, even then various styles of karate have have similar techniques (even if the average sport karate mcdojo doesn't teach it.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
I'm sorry I just find it amusing to assume that just because TMAs don't cater to grappling and groundfighting specifically; notable exceptions to Judo, Jujitsu, Aikijujutsu depending on the school and a few other systems, that a TMA does not want to go to the ground.
If they are trained to fight standing up and do not train for the ground why would anyone assume they want to take the fight to the ground? Why would they take a fight out of their comfort level? Especially against an opponent that may have ground fighting skills?
I'd rather be a good fighter. A good fighter can react to anything his opponent does and still counter.
Why anyone hasnt learned to grapple is beyond me. Of course I'm not good at it yet but I'm atleast trying to learn the basics of it atleast. There are waaaaaaaaay too many MMA enthusiasts out there to relie on standup alone.
You can pick up a lot of things just by watching MMA but that is nothing compared to actually learning how to roll.
A martial artist will always get more out full contact sparring than self defense drills, one steps, and especially worthless kata. Its called intensity people. If the drill doesnt invoke an adrenaline response than it wont prepare you for a fight at all.
Thats the thing, those self-defense drills, one steps & kata do have purpose, I already explained that ealier in this thread. The thing is sparring is not fighting, and even fighting in a sport is not the same as the street. Allot of people know how to grapple they just don't focus on it excessively.
As for the adrinoline rush, it teaches nothing nor does it hold an advantage for a technical fighter. Those drills are a build up to conditioning reflexes to react automatically, then you're supposed to fine tune that conditioning by sparring. Unfortunately too many mcdojos ingore the stress conditioning. Also kata are basically Tae-bo with intentions.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
I guess that TMA's and MMA for the most part seem to be at each other's throats. For real. I learned most of the self defence things I know from Krav Maga, which in my opinion, would fall under traditional martial art. I've seen MMA guys come and go from the Krav Maga class. Most of the time they are put to shame, not prepared to have their nose grabbed and their fingers snapped back into their wrists. Nor are they prepared for the large variety of "Cheat Takedowns" takedowns that involve the groin and parts of the face. For example grabbing the chin and nose and then yanking back on the face.
But Jiu-Jitsu fighters seem to fare well enough against us.
I suppose it varies. In a street fight I'd rather have MMA training and a strong Jiu-Jitsu/Judo list of takedowns than TMA defense. But then I suppose you'd need quite a bit of cross training to be able to mutate your styles to work together nicely.
__________________ leads to
Formerly Known as Hajilee... embrace the change.
Cynicism is the intellectual cripple's substitute for intelligence
J. Russel Lynes
The thing is sparring is not fighting, and even fighting in a sport is not the same as the street. Allot of people know how to grapple they just don't focus on it excessively.
Are you saying that sparring doesnt help you? So if fighting against resistance and learning how to use your move against a fully resisting partner doesnt help, then please explain how one steps and katas would? What you are saying isnt making any sense unless I am just reading it wrong.
Also, what are the purpose of one steps and katas if you cant use any of those moves against a fully resisting partner? The only purpose I can think of is a false sense of security
A martial artist will always get more out full contact sparring than self defense drills, one steps, and especially worthless kata. Its called intensity people. If the drill doesnt invoke an adrenaline response than it wont prepare you for a fight at all.
But sparring doesn't invoke an adrenaline rush in me either, other seem quite calm when sparring. I think it's because the environment is controlled. I think the adrenaline starts coming in more if you are doing a competition sparring an unknown person (although I've never been in a competition so I can't say for sure).
While kata are definately not the best thing for learning how to fight, they are far from useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
As I said earlier, sparring isn't self-defense. It IS a tool to help learn. Sparring without head contact isn't much of anything other than a way to train really bad habits. Personally, I feel you do have to have some full contact training or you will not be able to function if you get someone really trying to take off your head.
Yeah, I suppose that's a good way to put it. I do like the fact that sparring does get you thinking about your surroundings and whether or not you're about to be backed into a corner or run into someone else, and how to move in and out of range quickly.
__________________
Ah, Steven Seagull, I bet nobody's thought of that before.
This is not even a question... On Friday we had one of our guys fight a 2nd Degree BB in TKD in a MMA fight. He didn't get off one punch or kick he was picked up slammed on the matt. His guard was past and he got hit in the head until he verbally submitted. After the fight he got rushed to the hosital.
As far as someone saying there fight would never go to the ground your on drugs!! At least 70% of all fights end up on the ground and trust me your sprawl isn't that good. No TMA is going to help your more then a MMA school which shows Muay Thai, Wrestling, Jiu Jitsu and Boxing.
Sorry all your TMA fans... I will post the fight wants I get it and you can try to defend him getting his A--Kicked!
Also, what are the purpose of one steps and katas if you cant use any of those moves against a fully resisting partner? The only purpose I can think of is a false sense of security
Whoops, fogive the double post.
I my eyes katas (hyungs) are useful. I've found they get you thinking about how to distribute your weight effectively, make sure you're maintaining perfect form as well as providing a good CV workout. Although, you could argue that these are all benefits related to the traditional stances and techniques of the martial art rather than the more mordern stances you would incorperate for fighting.
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Ah, Steven Seagull, I bet nobody's thought of that before.
But sparring doesn't invoke an adrenaline rush in me either, other seem quite calm when sparring. I think it's because the environment is controlled.
If your sparring does not invoke an adrenaline rush then the cost of losing is too low. At least at my Tae Kwon Do school, losing in combat results in suicide runs across the gym.
It builds your desire to win. If you are calm then you consider losing to be okay. Try again my friend.
__________________ leads to
Formerly Known as Hajilee... embrace the change.
Cynicism is the intellectual cripple's substitute for intelligence
J. Russel Lynes
Are you saying that sparring doesnt help you? So if fighting against resistance and learning how to use your move against a fully resisting partner doesnt help, then please explain how one steps and katas would? What you are saying isnt making any sense unless I am just reading it wrong.
Also, what are the purpose of one steps and katas if you cant use any of those moves against a fully resisting partner? The only purpose I can think of is a false sense of security
Thats what I'm screaming. Anyone can do one steps and kata. But its going to take way more effort to defend a real strike whether on the street or in a full contact matchup.
Oh and Draven the adrenaline response is something people should get used to as it tends to be different than the ho hum feeling of practice.
__________________ The name means...No matter how many times you cut him, he will never fall. My soul cutter has no name, it is merely a tool.
I'll Still Kill!
Even the best of men are capable of the most disgusting evil. Just as the most evil man is capable of showing kindness.
Do not be fooled into thinking your enemy's sin is worse than yours, or that your's is better than his.
Good Fighter or Good Self Defence?
I'll Still Kill!
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