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I've seen a lot of schools advertising as "Gracie Barra" Ju Jitsu Schools. I know who Gracie is, but who is Barra? Is it a person or something else?
No, it's just the name of the academy. Gracie Barra is headed by Carlos Gracie, Jr. and is easily one of the biggest and most successful BJJ teams in the world. Any affiliation with Barra means they are going to be a legit organization.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Thanks. So, Gracie Barra is also part of Gracie BJJ.
This is where it starts getting weird.
The term "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" or GJJ was actually copyrighted by Rorian Gracie, who is one of Helio Gracie's sons (along with Royce Gracie). These are the guys at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, CA. They feel they are the "pure water" of jiu jitsu and are the only ones allowed to sanction who can use the term "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu". They do not call what they do Brazilain Jiu-Jitsu.
Pretty much everyone else, including other members of the very large Gracie family, are not recognized by Helio and company as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belts. Hence the term "Brazilain Jiu-Jitsu", to differentiate from Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and more traditional forms of Jiu-Jitsu (JJJ).
So, even though the main guy at Gracie Barra is Carlos Gracie Jr, he is not allowed to call what he does "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu".
So in a very round about way, the answer ironically is "No, they don't go Gracie Jiu-Jitsu". Gracie Barra is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school.
LOL! What a mess, huh?
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
The term "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" or GJJ was actually copyrighted by Rorian Gracie, who is one of Helio Gracie's sons (along with Royce Gracie). These are the guys at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, CA. They feel they are the "pure water" of jiu jitsu and are the only ones allowed to sanction who can use the term "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu". They do not call what they do Brazilain Jiu-Jitsu.
Pretty much everyone else, including other members of the very large Gracie family, are not recognized by Helio and company as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belts. Hence the term "Brazilain Jiu-Jitsu", to differentiate from Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and more traditional forms of Jiu-Jitsu (JJJ).
So, even though the main guy at Gracie Barra is Carlos Gracie Jr, he is not allowed to call what he does "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu".
So in a very round about way, the answer ironically is "No, they don't go Gracie Jiu-Jitsu". Gracie Barra is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school.
LOL! What a mess, huh?
Is there a rivalry between the Gracie BJJ guys and the Gracie GJJ guys? And are they both equally as legit as each other? Are the differences between styles?
__________________ "People can take physical pain, people can take mental anguish, but cardio pain crushes eveeeerybody." - Frank Mir
It's the same thing with Carlson Gracie Sr. and why the Brazilian Top Team was formed. Only members of Helio's lineage do Gracie Jiu Jitsu members of Carlos Sr.'s lineage do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Joe do you know if there was static between Helio and Carlos Sr. I found it odd that when Carlson passed Helio's side barely even payed attention.
so cesear gracie is from helios lineage?
i always wondered why it says gracie jiu jitsu instead if brazillian jiu jitsu on the sign at our school.
Cesar is weird case, his mother was a Gracie I'm not sure what side of the family. I'm pretty sure he received his black belt from Carlos Robinson Gracie and then his second degree from Carlos Gracie Jr. I know he had worked some with Carlson Sr. as well.
Is there a rivalry between the Gracie BJJ guys and the Gracie GJJ guys? And are they both equally as legit as each other? Are the differences between styles?
It's not so much a "rivalry" per say as a difference of opinion.
Helio Gracie feels he was the one who essentially created the art that is being practiced today and is carrying on the legacy.
The other members of the family feel THEY are the ones carrying on the legacy.
It's also a difference in the sport vs self defense perspective.
The Gracie JJ guys are usually much more focused on self defense and not the sport of BJJ. They tend to be much less focused on competition oriented training.
BJJ guys are usually sport BJJ oriented first, with a concentration on how to succeed with other BJJ guys and compete at high levels.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
It's the same thing with Carlson Gracie Sr. and why the Brazilian Top Team was formed. Only members of Helio's lineage do Gracie Jiu Jitsu members of Carlos Sr.'s lineage do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Joe do you know if there was static between Helio and Carlos Sr. I found it odd that when Carlson passed Helio's side barely even payed attention.
The static between Helio and Carlson is well documented! This really came to a head with Wallid Ismael, who in BJJ competition had wins over many of the Helio side of the family including the historic Wallid vs Royce Gracie match in which Wallid put Royce to sleep with a clock choke.
Carlson Gracie put together a very impressive team of NHBG/Vale Tudo early on. The list is a who's who of Brazilian NHB/Vale tudo standouts including:
Mario Sperry
Murillo Bustamante
Romero "Jacare" Calvancanti
Allan Goes
Vitor Belfort
Fabio Gurgel
Marcelo Behring (this is who the Yamasaki brothers, my instructors, received their BBs from actually)
Ironically, it was Carlson who was credited with "inventing" the sport of BJJ. He is credited with coming up with the rule sets of todays BJJ competitiongs. This is one of the things that drove the wedge even further between him and Helio Gracie.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
This really make me wonder... 25 years from now are people going to say something like, "Carlos Gracie Jr.? Pfft... he's the biggest sham since Ashida Kim", in order to start arguments?
When that starts happening, some new martial art is going to come along and start calling BJJ a TMA, and then the stuff is really going to hit the fan.
No, it's just the name of the academy. Gracie Barra is headed by Carlos Gracie, Jr. and is easily one of the biggest and most successful BJJ teams in the world. Any affiliation with Barra means they are going to be a legit organization.
It makes for a contrast with the usual naming convention for Gracie schools, which tends to simply be the instructors name: e.g., Carlson Gracie, Renzo Gracie Academy, Roger Gracie Academy. Gracie Barra, on the other hand, gets its name from the location, Barra da Tijuca: Carlos Gracie Jr started it with various other Gracies, so thought it wouldn't make sense to call it 'Carlos Gracie Jr Academy' (more details here).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapel
25 years from now are people going to say something like, "Carlos Gracie Jr.? Pfft... he's the biggest sham since Ashida Kim", in order to start arguments?
Heh - no need to wait 25 years, it is happening already.
Some people, fairly or unfairly (although I'm a Gracie Barra guy myself, I don't think I know enough to really make a final judgement), criticise Carlinhos due to the amount of cash he brings in through Gracie Barra and the IBJJF - he is the head of both. Which leads to threads like this and pics like this:
Who's Barra in "Gracie Barra"
Guess he beat the odds.
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