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Gah. Again, NO, it is not that people who compete are somehow incapable of understanding that tapping = learning. The same person can have one mindset for competition and another for class. That is what grasshopper was missing, and unless I've misread your post, you too.
No sweetie, I really was only talking a bout competition, not class. I'm not daft and I do realise people who fight in competions tap in class, and learn in class just the same as everyone else! I'm merely talking about the difference in competition fighting. So yes you have misread what I was saying.
Here we go again....someone who has never competed in a grappling tournament in their life telling me what I need to do in one.
Thanks grasshopper for feeling the need to critique my personality, skills, and purpose all in one post.
When you have some grappling tournaments under your belt I will take what you have to say a little more seriously. Until then, go back to kicking break-away boards and leave the submission skills to those of us who know.
*EDITED*
I want to add another thing here.
The purpose of competing is to try to win. The purpose of training for competition is to learn, but when you step out on the mats you had better be trying to win.
grasshopper, have you ever competed in a martial arts tournament of any kind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
chillout mate - it wasnt a personal attack, all im saying is that when I grapple guys I dont know id rather tap than pass out. there was nothing more to it than that, dont be so defensive. How would you think what I wrote was directed at you?
I have never kicked a break away board in my life, yet how can you assume I have no submission skills?
agreeably I have been to and watched many tournaments, but have not competed, that said I have been to an open mat before and fought with guys I don't know, so the experience of fighting another martial artist I have never seen before isnt new to me.
granted though ive not competed, which is fair enough this is an experince I lack in. but I dont understand how this suggests that people who compete know submission better than those that dont, and I dont know how this suggests that I spend my time kicking boards.
whenever I fight another martial artsit I am there to learn, if and when I do compete I will be there to learn and to learn alone, victory to me means little, that is my opinion.
tell me joemo how many taijutsu classes have you been too? you seem to have a view of the art I study based on the fact that we dont compete, thats a little stereotypical isnt it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
ok, thats fair I can only speak from one side of the fence on this one as competition is never something ive pursued.
but if someone has you in a good choke, why not just tap out? you loose nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
Nice.
So, you QUOTE me, say I have an ego then proceed to tell me what the point of competing is and when I respond back negatively now I'm the one who needs to chillout because I'm being defensive?
Way to back out of that one. If you're going to try to slam me, at least stick with it in your argument, don't act like you weren't coming at me because you were.
Let me tell YOU a little bit about competing from MY experience.
When I attended the 2004 Pan American games to compete in the Purple Belt division, the registration cost me somewhere around $80. The round trip flight from DC to Los Angeles, CA cost about $650. Three days hotel was probably a good $350. I cut weight for 2 weeks, made it to about 158 (I walk around about 175). I trained two, three, sometimes 4 times a day for about 2 months to prepare. I worked with top level bjj competitors and got manhandled by them for months getting ready. I prepared myself mentally and physically in every way imagineable.
Once you've been through something like that, then you can come back and talk to me about what the purpose of competing is and who loses what when they tap without trying EVERYTHING to get out first.
Let me explain this to you grasshopper so that you can understand:
When you step on the mat to compete you are there representing yourself, your family, your academy, your art and your teammates. You had better NOT give up on that mat until you have given EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. You will NEVER be able to live with yourself if you don't.
If you aren't willing to do that, then don't ever plan to step on that mat.
joemo, we are different I will stop arguing this subject because its one I have little experience of, you're probably right.
However please dont assume things about the art I study just because I dont compete. That was the point I was trying to make in my last post, maybe I don't train to perfect victory or represent an entire list of people and things. But that doesn't mean what I do is of any less value in comparison to what you do, and that definitely doesn't mean you can put me down, by suggesting the style I train in has no submission skills and suggesting the style I train in spends its time doing fruitless tasks such as breaking break away boards.
Like I said im going to stop arguing this point because I haven't competed, therefore I am wrong, all I can do is apologize and try to learn.
thankyou for reading
Last edited by grasshopper; 04-23-2009 at 08:55 AM.
joemo, we are different I will stop arguing this subject because its one I have little experience of, you're probably right.
However please dont assume things about the art I study just because I dont compete. That was the point I was trying to make in my last post, maybe I don't train to perfect victory or represent an entire list of people and things. But that doesn't mean what I do is of any less value in comparison to what you do, and that definitely doesn't mean you can put me down, by suggesting the style I train in has no submission skills and suggesting the style I train in spends its time doing fruitless tasks such as breaking break away boards.
Like I said im going to stop arguing this point because I haven't competed, therefore I am wrong, all I can do is apologize and try to learn.
thankyou for reading
Good enough grasshopper, I respect that.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
If I'm messing around wrestling with my friend and he gets me in a lock/hold, I forget to tap... Cause I don't do sparring/MA or anything, I just sort of yell a bit and he forgets to let go, because he's used to people tapping!
Nightmare.
Or he'll show me a lock, I'll try it on him, he'll tap and I won't know what he's doing and I'll hold it too long. *laughs* But that's more funny.
If I'm messing around wrestling with my friend and he gets me in a lock/hold, I forget to tap... Cause I don't do sparring/MA or anything, I just sort of yell a bit and he forgets to let go, because he's used to people tapping!
Nightmare.
Or he'll show me a lock, I'll try it on him, he'll tap and I won't know what he's doing and I'll hold it too long. *laughs* But that's more funny.
At least you can claim ignorance of when to tap as an excuse. When Lady Fighter and I roll, neither of us EVER want to tap. She may get me in a tight choke or I might have her in a sweet arm bar, but we just hate to give up to one another. This is why our grappling matches sometimes last 30 or 40 minutes.
__________________ "An eye for an eye only blinds the world." - Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
"Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa
At least you can claim ignorance of when to tap as an excuse. When Lady Fighter and I roll, neither of us EVER want to tap. She may get me in a tight choke or I might have her in a sweet arm bar, but we just hate to give up to one another. This is why our grappling matches sometimes last 30 or 40 minutes.
I imagine no one would want to tap out to their wife or husband.
__________________ I'm still alive so I must have made some good decisions
Break the arm dude and be like "you should've tapped!" Just kidding LF
LOL Neither of us would want to do that because it would leave the uninjured person changing ALL the dirty diapers.
__________________ "An eye for an eye only blinds the world." - Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
"Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa
At least you can claim ignorance of when to tap as an excuse. When Lady Fighter and I roll, neither of us EVER want to tap. She may get me in a tight choke or I might have her in a sweet arm bar, but we just hate to give up to one another. This is why our grappling matches sometimes last 30 or 40 minutes.
Me and grasshopper give up pretty quickly, probably on the grounds that he'll obviously win, but i'll be pissed off at him and moody for the rest of the day .
*laughs*
if you tap, you are giving up - you are potentially missing out on a possible escape
if you tap, you'll never know if you could have gotten out of it
Just a question on this; "Don't tap out in competitions cus you might have won" idea.
How often do professional MMA fighters actually let themselves get choked out rather than tap out? I'm not the ubber-fan of UFC that others here are, but these guys are actually fighting for their livelihood, so why are they taping out? Shouldn't they all just let themselves be choked out to give themselves a few seconds more fight time and thus a few seconds more of potential escape time?
I think the reason is because if someone gets you in a lock really well, there are times when there is absolutely no way out of it. Also, like you said this is there livelihood. If you don't tap out and you have your arm broken, then you can't fight for a while which means you can't make money. This is my take on it at least.
__________________ I'm still alive so I must have made some good decisions
Styles: Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Karate, Aikido, Judo, Tae Kwon Do
Posts: 1,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Them's Fighting Words
Just a question on this; "Don't tap out in competitions cus you might have won" idea.
How often do professional MMA fighters actually let themselves get choked out rather than tap out? I'm not the ubber-fan of UFC that others here are, but these guys are actually fighting for their livelihood, so why are they taping out? Shouldn't they all just let themselves be choked out to give themselves a few seconds more fight time and thus a few seconds more of potential escape time?
you're talking about professionals
professionals KNOW - they have the experience to know whether or not they can get out
amateurs do not
plus, as you said, it is their livelihood - they dont want to get hurt. amateurs are risking less
How often does this happen?
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