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As I've stated in another thread, my TKD school competed in an open martial arts tournament this past Saturday, and the circuit we compete in has added a grappling division this year.
I was watching some of the matches toward the end of the tourney, and there was a pretty graphic occurence. I had looked away for a few minute, when suddenly this teenage girl runs past me holding her mouth and crying. I was like, "What the heck is going on?" and I looked back over to the grappling mats. A kid had been choked out to the point of passing out, and he had thrown up and wet himself. Not sure of the kid's age, but my mother-in-law asked someone from his team and they said he was about 12.
My question is this: How often have any of you seen people choked to the point of throwing up or peeing on themselves? Is this common at grappling tournaments? Or is this a result of a medical problem or maybe bad refereeing? (i.e. Could the ref have stopped the choke before it got to that point?)
__________________ "An eye for an eye only blinds the world." - Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
"Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa
I've seen it and more, used to laugh at this kid who got an erection everytime he was choked out when I studying Jujitsu. Its a matter of muscle control and losing muscle control as they go uncontious. It can pretty much happen to anyone, but I don't think the ref should have let a 12 y/o lose contiousness thats just me...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
As I've stated in another thread, my TKD school competed in an open martial arts tournament this past Saturday, and the circuit we compete in has added a grappling division this year.
I was watching some of the matches toward the end of the tourney, and there was a pretty graphic occurence. I had looked away for a few minute, when suddenly this teenage girl runs past me holding her mouth and crying. I was like, "What the heck is going on?" and I looked back over to the grappling mats. A kid had been choked out to the point of passing out, and he had thrown up and wet himself. Not sure of the kid's age, but my mother-in-law asked someone from his team and they said he was about 12.
My question is this: How often have any of you seen people choked to the point of throwing up or peeing on themselves? Is this common at grappling tournaments? Or is this a result of a medical problem or maybe bad refereeing? (i.e. Could the ref have stopped the choke before it got to that point?)
It's not often someone vomits when they're unconscious, the gag reflex is not usually associated with unconsciousness. I would bet that the boy actually vomitted before going out.
Peeing yourself or even releasing your bowels can happen and does happen, though not often.
Someone has gone to sleep at just about every single tournament I have ever attended. It sounds to me like this person was probably out for a long time, which would be a sign of bad reffing which would be somewhat expected at a smaller tournament. Normally, at events like NAGA, Grapplers Quest, and US Grappling the refs are not only purple belts or higher but have undergone a certification process and are almost always seasoned competitors. In these cases, when someone is out it's usually called very quickly since the refs tend to know exactly what to look for and are familiar with any kind of choke attempt being made.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
surely if you know the opponent has a strong choke on and you are unable to escape you should tap out.
In a tournament situation you are going to do everything you can to get out. I myself have been put to sleep in a tournament because I pretty much was like "I'm not tapping, you're going to have to put me to sleep". And he did.
I've also put someone to sleep, a friend of mine actually, who had the same mentality. It's part of the game.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
It is kind of rare thing when people lose control of their bodily functions when choked out. I think it's odd that the ref would let a 12 year old kid get choked out, this is very poor refereeing. I do require that all of my fighters get choked out, it's more of a bonding thing then anything else. I have a stable of 17 fighters right now all who've been choked out none of which have pee'd or pooped them selves. A lot of snoring some shaking and every one has that why the hell is coach in my room when the wake back up but no uncontrolled bodily functions. I've seen a lot of other choke outs as well and have never seen it. I've heard of it but never seen it first hand.
Still that ref should be fired kids should NOT be choking each other out.
In a tournament situation you are going to do everything you can to get out. I myself have been put to sleep in a tournament because I pretty much was like "I'm not tapping, you're going to have to put me to sleep". And he did.
I've also put someone to sleep, a friend of mine actually, who had the same mentality. It's part of the game.
sounds like ego to me - to compete is to learn, if you refuse to learn then more fool you. Unless you learn by going to sleep
In a tournament situation you are going to do everything you can to get out. I myself have been put to sleep in a tournament because I pretty much was like "I'm not tapping, you're going to have to put me to sleep". And he did.
I've also put someone to sleep, a friend of mine actually, who had the same mentality. It's part of the game.
totally agree had similiar experiences!
__________________
Many a man's mouth has broken his nose. - Irish proverb
My guruma is better than my grammar
"My left hand is made out of Iron my right out of steel if one don't get you the other one will"
Many Submission Grappling and BJJ tournaments won't allow any submission attempts at all for the kids divisions which is usually ages 4-12. They usually only score based on points alone.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
sounds like ego to me - to compete is to learn, if you refuse to learn then more fool you. Unless you learn by going to sleep
and yes - ill have you know I have awful teeth
oh wait... wrong thread
I'm the "better to die on my feet then live on knees type" and your right it probably is ego but I'd much rather be beaten then give up to anything/anyone. Besides you know were your threshhold is if you never test it out...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
I've been close to getting choked out. We've been grappling in class a lot lately because our tournaments are adding different kinds of sparring as well. I was rolling with this guy who has some experience and he attempted a guillotine choke on me. It was tight, but I was finally able to get out. At first, I didn't think I was gonna get out of it...and I was thinking the whole time "I'm not F'n tappin', you're gonna have to choke me out!"
__________________
“The will to win, the desire to succeed, the urge to reach your full potential… these are the keys that will unlock the door to personal excellence.”
sounds like ego to me - to compete is to learn, if you refuse to learn then more fool you. Unless you learn by going to sleep
and yes - ill have you know I have awful teeth
oh wait... wrong thread
Here we go again....someone who has never competed in a grappling tournament in their life telling me what I need to do in one.
Thanks grasshopper for feeling the need to critique my personality, skills, and purpose all in one post.
When you have some grappling tournaments under your belt I will take what you have to say a little more seriously. Until then, go back to kicking break-away boards and leave the submission skills to those of us who know.
*EDITED*
I want to add another thing here.
The purpose of competing is to try to win. The purpose of training for competition is to learn, but when you step out on the mats you had better be trying to win.
grasshopper, have you ever competed in a martial arts tournament of any kind?
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
I was rolling with this guy who has some experience and he attempted a guillotine choke on me. It was tight, but I was finally able to get out. At first, I didn't think I was gonna get out of it...and I was thinking the whole time "I'm not F'n tappin', you're gonna have to choke me out!"
When I get a good guillotine, people dont fight for one second. My arms are bony and skinny so I dig right into their trachia...but my guillotine is more of a trachia choke then blood choke. Ive actually been doing them less and less because a few guys told me that I strained their trachia. I do still do it on newer guys when ever they try to put their head down when I have them in guard to try and stall me....they need to work on breaking guard anyway not stalling in practice
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Gracie Challenge: "If you want to get your face beaten and well smashed, your a$$ kicked, and your arms broken, Contact Carlos Gracie at this address..."
How often does this happen?
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