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What you said was "fight from the floor". I didn't realize that this translated into "run".
So, before we can continue to converse let's compeltey define our self defense situation.
What you mean by a self defense situation is:
A gang of people, in a wide open area, not circled around you in a way to limit your ability to flee, standing over top of you.
So now that we've got that part figured out, let's go ahead and finish out the conversation.
Please go ahead and explain now how your training is accomplishing handling this situation.
ok il run you through 2 situations and tell you what i would do
1.A group of people are pushing you around, clearly someone is about to punch or kick you, i would respnd to this by kicking in front with a front kick to knock them back, if that makes them think we better stop fine however if another person advanced i would just strike with a palm hand, elbows etc. and work my way out until i get the chance to tail it.
2.One on one situation the guy is pushing you about and draws back for a punch, i would step back in anticipation of the punch and do a jumping front kick to the face, as he is moving back no doubt if i land the kick to the nose he will cover his face, i will at this point move in with a knee to the lower regions, as he drops from this possibly a downward strike with the elbow to the top of the head. Obviously these attacks would be different depending what actually happens but you get a rough idea
sorry i think we could have avoided a debate if i was clearer with what i meant lol
we do ground work every so often but generally it is not taught in our curriculum, we do every so often practice those moves but we do moves which consist of instantly getting back to your feet as from a self defence view it is very dangerous t fight on the floor.
Therefore we only ever train to get back up rather than slugging it out on the floor. I think in some ways this is the reason for many HKD schools to not include ground fighting, i believe this is wrong as although it is a bad area to be in it is useful to know what to do if you do go down
This has gotten way off topic. It was began so that Hapkidoist can tell about what they do to offset their training or describe what they do to prepare for the ground, a valuable fighting skill. Not for the debate of someone's personal philosophy and wether they are right or wrong. It is this that sidetracks threads that can spread and share valuable information and puts an end to what could be productive threads. please take your debate to a separate thread or a pm.
__________________
Daniel W. "Gigagei Waya" McCullar, 5th Dan
Chief Instructor, I.H.K.A. www.ihmuca.com
International Hapkido Martial Arts University California
basicly the way my art is teaching me to handle a situation is to work to how the situation is around you, personally i would really on kicks and strikes, locks are a bit to risky to pull out as you may easily mess them up, however if the chance arises and ive got no doubt i can break an arm because the guy has foolishly grabbed me then i will use locks etc. its just i prefer to keep chances of being beaten to a minimum therefore although my art is primarily locks and joint manipulation i will not neccesarily use these because they may put you at risk, this is exactly the same reason why i would not chose to go to ground, as 1. you can not run if things get very bad and 2. it is risky as you may get caught out e.g. the guy may bite your ear off or kick you between the legs
basicly the way my art is teaching me to handle a situation is to work to how the situation is around you, personally i would really on kicks and strikes, locks are a bit to risky to pull out as you may easily mess them up, however if the chance arises and ive got no doubt i can break an arm because the guy has foolishly grabbed me then i will use locks etc. its just i prefer to keep chances of being beaten to a minimum therefore although my art is primarily locks and joint manipulation i will not neccesarily use these because they may put you at risk, this is exactly the same reason why i would not chose to go to ground, as 1. you can not run if things get very bad and 2. it is risky as you may get caught out e.g. the guy may bite your ear off or kick you between the legs
This has gotten way off topic. It was began so that Hapkidoist can tell about what they do to offset their training or describe what they do to prepare for the ground, a valuable fighting skill. Not for the debate of someone's personal philosophy and wether they are right or wrong. It is this that sidetracks threads that can spread and share valuable information and puts an end to what could be productive threads. please take your debate to a separate thread or a pm.
Ok back on topic then, the way i prepare for ground is by generally having 'pressure test' days every so often which is where we generally use near full contact and work out ways in which to get back to your feet. For example one way when someone has full mount is to drive your finger just above the rib cage into the wind pipe is you do this push your hips up and off to a side and pull them sideways by there hair or sleeve, these two combined actions gets the person off and struggling for breath therefore giving time to get back to your feet
basicly the way my art is teaching me to handle a situation is to work to how the situation is around you, personally i would really on kicks and strikes, locks are a bit to risky to pull out as you may easily mess them up, however if the chance arises and ive got no doubt i can break an arm because the guy has foolishly grabbed me then i will use locks etc. its just i prefer to keep chances of being beaten to a minimum therefore although my art is primarily locks and joint manipulation i will not neccesarily use these because they may put you at risk, this is exactly the same reason why i would not chose to go to ground, as 1. you can not run if things get very bad and 2. it is risky as you may get caught out e.g. the guy may bite your ear off or kick you between the legs
Again, you keep speaking in general terms for things that are specific to you, your training, and lack of understanding.
I can guarantee you, with near absolute certainty, that if I wanted to arm lock I could whether it be standing or on the ground. Please, I am asking you again, please stop talking in general terms for things that are your own person point of view.
You do not get to determine the difference between opinion and fact. And, in fact, you are speaking about your own personal opinions and therefore they are NOT FACTUAL.
But thank you for reminding me why so many of my students gave up working with TMA people like you and instead are paying me.
As for the topic and us taking it off topic, we actually are well within the topic because I am debating whether or not the techniques this dude are learning are any good for groundwork. It is reiterating what I said earlier which was if you want to learn this area, then go to someone who knows what they are doing because CLEARLY there is a lot of myth and lies out there in Martial Arts world concerning ground fighting.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Ok back on topic then, the way i prepare for ground is by generally having 'pressure test' days every so often which is where we generally use near full contact and work out ways in which to get back to your feet. For example one way when someone has full mount is to drive your finger just above the rib cage into the wind pipe is you do this push your hips up and off to a side and pull them sideways by there hair or sleeve, these two combined actions gets the person off and struggling for breath therefore giving time to get back to your feet
HOLY.....
Dude, stop. Just stop. This is TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE advice on what to do if someone is mounted on you!!!
This is such bad and dangerous advice it should be stricken from ever having been written down.
Dude....wow....you are learning some REALLY REALLY bad stuff. You need to get your money back.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Joe is absolutely right that is the worst mount escape ever. Against someone like Joe or myself or John whether your mates around or not if you do this we're breaking your arm.
Again see my post about ground fundamentals being able to shrimp and so on.
Joe is absolutely right that is the worst mount escape ever. Against someone like Joe or myself or John whether your mates around or not if you do this we're breaking your arm.
Again see my post about ground fundamentals being able to shrimp and so on.
Bingo, as usualy Triangle is correct. Doing what you say is like telling someone to put their hands down against a boxer.
Thank you for proving the point both Triangle and I were trying to say:
If you want to learn what to do AND WHAT NOT DO on the ground, go to someone with expertise in that area. Making it up on your own may not prove effective when you may need it the most.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Here is a video that our own Damen was kind enough to tape for me that shows me giving an example of an armlock from mount that I was trying to explain for John55 here on the forum. In the video, you will see two variations of the armlock. The first one is the traditional approach to the armlock if the guy is flat on his back and gives up his arm. The second example is one for more experienced grapplers who are having a problem dealing with people who are rolling them and are putting their arms in the wrong place when doing so.
These examples are just two of a countless number of armlocks from the mount. I cannot begin to tell you how easy these are if you stick your arm up in my face like you suggested doing in your earlier post.
I've seen Capoeira guys pull off scissor leg sweeps/takedwons, swissor throws and fly arm arms. What makes that any different from most Native American martial arts or Sport Judo's variation of the same techniques. Oh right... They break dance too
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
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