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This is, without a doubt, the most useful piece of information I have received on this forum since I have been here.
+1 for you Complete. Getting to know how to say anything related to poo in another language is always good!
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Originally Posted by complete
I hope this forum has more informative stuff than just how to say poop in different languages...
I'm sure he's kidding. Otherwise he wouldn't bother with this forum anymore. I quite like this forum you created. It's the only forum I actually bother posting on. Also rather chat with the guys here (who are all martial arts fans) then Face Book or My Space. Which is probably the reason my post total has risen so quickly.
Interesting info about the sulsa. It is always fascinating to me to see aspects of martial arts deeply related to the local cultures of the art's origin. I do watch korean epic movies esp those with MA in them. There was never mentioned anything about this sulsa at all. If the koreans are proud of this sulsa, they should promote/expose it to the world via a documentary or movie even. Sometimes there are aspects of history in some cultures that are kept hidden from the world or the younger generation just because they are ashame of them. Could this be the reason we don't hear about this sulsa as compared to the japanese ninja?
Sorry for the necro, but I find this topic most interesting. I have heard about the Sulsa before and I read the Black Belt article, too. One theory that was told to me was that the Chinese spies and assassins were the original "ninja", so to speak. Most of them fled the country when the leader/lord was deposed and a new one took over because the new regime would hunt down and kill all of the members of the old regime to prevent a coup. These masterless spies and assassins fled throughout the far east to places like Japan, where they helped lay the ground work for the Shinobi. They most likely fled to Korea too, where they would've possibly laid the groundwork for the Sulsa. Yes, I know, it is a very sketchy theory and it is probably waaay off the mark, but I just wanted to put it out there because it is something that was told to me.
I have personally never really believed that the Sulsa existed. More like they were just an attempt to copy the Japanese Ninja (or what is thought of as being the Japanese Ninja) in Korea. Perhaps Koreans never talk about it because it isn't and never was a part of their martial heritage. I think that Korea had its own version of Shadow Warriors, but who they were and what they did has been lost to time, like so many other Korean arts that we will never know about. Most of what is known as Korean martial arts today is just bootleg Japanese martial arts due to the neglect of the martial arts during a recent time in Korean society coupled with the Japanese occupation.
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"Physical strength is measured by what we can carry, spiritual by what we can bear."
- Anonymous
If i am not mistaken much of the korean history was not recorded because of japans occupation. And because this was shadow organization there would be little written or spoken on this topic. And the fact also remains that the CMA and JMA stories are told to the majority through movies and TV. I dont even remember watching any KMA growing up. From what i understand they are the best of the Hwa Rang Do warriors. Who were awesome practioners.
If i am not mistaken much of the korean history was not recorded because of japans occupation.
This is a bogus assertion. There is a lot of Korean History that has been recorded and is still around after the occupation, some examples are the Samguk Sagi, The Muye Dobo Tongji, Chae Mulbo, and Haedong Chukchi, to name a few. We cannot use the Japanese occupation as an excuse for poor documentation or complete lack of documentation.
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And because this was shadow organization there would be little written or spoken on this topic.
Another bogus assertion that, ironically, mirrors the very same excuse that is given concerning people's general lack of knowledge concerning the Japanese Ninja. Basically, it's an easy out for one to use when they really can't support or find anything legit to support their belief.
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And the fact also remains that the CMA and JMA stories are told to the majority through movies and TV. I dont even remember watching any KMA growing up.
This is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. Besides, you shouldn't be relying on movies and TV to get your facts, anyways. They are entertainment, not reality.
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From what i understand they are the best of the Hwa Rang Do warriors. Who were awesome practioners.
And how do you know this? Where is your proof or documentation? In other words, can you back this up with hard, proven evidence from a reputable source? Blind supposition, my teacher says so, youtube, and wikipedia do not constitute hard, proven evidence from a reputable source. Now shoot!
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"Physical strength is measured by what we can carry, spiritual by what we can bear."
- Anonymous
Last edited by Theforgotten; 06-13-2009 at 12:23 AM.
Reason: Computer glitch interrupted my original post.
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,744
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with martial arts Koreans do keep good records of thier martial history. theres documentation of Korean arts that are indigneous to the country.
and in general there is detailed records of the history of the country, some of which can be found in numerous academic schools, musuems, and libraries.
the modern Korean arts are the ones that have some road bumps regarding history in some instances.
most cultures around the world have elite warfare specialist groups that do many of the same field functions ninja would do cause its not exclusive but universal warfare tactics.
Japanese ninja originated in Japan with the Yamabushi combined with indigneous forms from the local populace. later on ninjutsu developed over the period of time with concepts learned from immigrants to Japan, who came from India, Persia, etc. there is some Chinese influence also from Chinese immigrants, but they are influences...not them being the originators of ninjutsu.
Sulsa is sort of an equivalent but not neccessarily "Korean ninjutsu". its an elite art that has some similarities regarding some of the field operations cause that aspect isnt exclusive, but it used by most of the Elite forces from the militaries of different cultures around the world.
modern forms of Sulsa is used today but not limited to by 707 White tiger Unit, one of the S. Korean special forces units.
and the Presidential bodyguards are said to be trained in those tactics also.
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Styles: Currently:MT, BJJ (No)Gi, Kali/JKD, West Boxing, PK/freerun JunFan Gung Fu Previously:WC Ninjutsu,
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Originally Posted by Dean
I dont even remember watching any KMA growing up.
You've never seen a JCVD film?
I've heard of the Sulsa. I got a different story though;
The Sulsa was created to become the ultimate in stealth and survival, there operations included spying, espionage, and assasination.
These elite warriors were selected from the army, firstly they were only ever single with little or no direct family, this was so that they could give there all and not be hindered with worries about death. These people were then pitted in MA competitions amongst each other, to determine the best fighters. They were then put to play chess against each other, to setermine the smarteest. This left the General with the few exceptional warriors. They were then trained in Guerilla warfare, espionage tactics and extreme survival.
I heard about a mission that they done;
The Sulsa were placed outside a huge enemy encampment, there they waited and watched for a whole week, memorizing guard patterns and switches. They also established the chain of command withing the encampment. After they had finished observing, they sneaked in undetected, and killed every man with significant authority along with all the scouts by a quick stab to the neck with a dagger. They then left undetected, the rest is kind of self explanitory
Now, I never said that I am an expert at any of the MA. Are you? As a matter of fact I am extremely new but not new in life. However, I read articles from the hwa rang do headquaters, a book by taejoon lee and articles from the internet including what is on this forum. Most people dont research topics they are unaware of. We are made aware of them by medias such as books, classes, our environment. However, if these fail to reach us...yes we are often exposed and inspired to learn by what we saw on tv and movies. So, before we "SHOOT" we should think about what we say, what are intention are and how it effect others.
Now, I never said that I am an expert at any of the MA. Are you? As a matter of fact I am extremely new but not new in life. However, I read articles from the hwa rang do headquaters, a book by taejoon lee and articles from the internet including what is on this forum. Most people dont research topics they are unaware of. We are made aware of them by medias such as books, classes, our environment. However, if these fail to reach us...yes we are often exposed and inspired to learn by what we saw on tv and movies. So, before we "SHOOT" we should think about what we say, what are intention are and how it effect others.
No, I am not an expert, but I do my homework and I have been around the block, so to speak. So far, nothing of substance has been found as hard evidence by any reputable sources. Of course the Hwa Rang Do headquarters is going to put out stuff to back their position - they have a vested interest in it and they are the ones who created the myths and legends in the first place. I am not even going to get started on the Lee's, but let's just say that they have been caught in numerous lies, to put it nicely. Most people do take the time to research stuff if they are interested in pursuing knowledge of it, and they don't rely on television and movies, which stretch the truth and have the goal of attaining higher ratings. They go to actual historians and professionals, and they gather info from scholarly sources such as records written in the original language and such. Yes, television and movies do inspire a lot of people to get into the arts, however, most people know that it is just television and/or a movie and if they are serious about their art, then they know to look past the entertainment and seek out the cold, hard truth of their art. It is not a matter of something failing to reach you, it is about taking the iniative to go out and educate yourself on the subject matter. When I said shoot, I was imploring you to present your case or counter argument. If what I said has come off as rude then I apologize because that was not my intention. This is a friendly debate between brothers and sisters in the arts. However, we must be able to openly debate these things and not hold back or refuse to question just because someone can't accept the truth or that what they have been taught is not the truth. Now, present your case, my brother .
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"Physical strength is measured by what we can carry, spiritual by what we can bear."
- Anonymous
For the record, I have stated numerous times that EVERY country and culture has and has had its own shadow warriors. This is not in dispute. What I am questioning though, is the Sulsa thing. I am not trying to insult anyone, however, when the exact image of the popular conception of Japanese Ninjas appear in another culture - complete with the SAME EXACT gross exaggerations and misinformation, then I would like to think that questioning it wouldn't be off base. Never mind the fact it didn't even exist in said culture until the ninja boom in the 80's. I believe that Korea had its own shadow warriors, but I do not buy the Sulsa thing for one minute.
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"Physical strength is measured by what we can carry, spiritual by what we can bear."
- Anonymous
No, offense taken...I am interested in finding out more about the subject. And there is probably a lot of information out there. I just have not taken the time to find out where. What are some of your resources?
No, offense taken...I am interested in finding out more about the subject. And there is probably a lot of information out there. I just have not taken the time to find out where. What are some of your resources?
Thank goodness, it is not easy discussing these things, especially when there are those who have strong feelings attached to them. You want to present evidence, but you don't want it to be taken the wrong way, attacking a style and its practitioners is definitely not the goal. Unfortunately, with our beloved KMA's, there is a lot of nationalist propaganda and outright lies attached to them. These things get told and retold within the styles and are treated as gospel truth when they are not. People defend them without ever knowing that they have been lied to in the first place and I think that it is a very tragic thing since most of us trust and love our sanbonim. Resources? I'll just pm them to you because there is a lot that I have compiled, and I also don't want to hijack the thread .
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"Physical strength is measured by what we can carry, spiritual by what we can bear."
- Anonymous
The Sulsa
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