You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Japanese Martial ArtsDiscuss Japanese style Martial Arts here - Aikido, Iaido, Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Karate, Kenpo, Kendo, Kyudo, Kyudo, Ninjitsu, Sumo
And my point is they had morals simply just as a human being minus the samurai status they were people just like you and me they were made of the same flesh and bone material as you and me yes there is corruptness,homosexuality, and tactic to get the mission complete in every
country, race, culture. but to make a statement say ALL SAMURAI WERE HOMOSEXUALS that is a statement not based on anything thats like saying since a few humans where gay the intire human race is gay and im stressing the point that yea,there could have been "a few slim to none" homosexual samurai BUT THEY ALL WERNT and there where samurai that where as noble as the "PAINTED PICTURE" samurai thought for them selves and the ones who didnt were weak
the ones who where strong to rise above his master they are the real samurai
the samurai who where for the people where real samurai
the samurai who lives his life as a samurai for him self was a true samurai
a samurai who lived up to the code of morals was a true and real samurai
and a samurai who would end his life because he did not want to do evil "and knew if he didnt he would be killed any way" was a real samurai.
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,252
Home Country:
Noble....as in the Band of Samurai who came to Okinawa and subjugated the people there?
almost wiped out thier original ryukyu kingdom heritage an turned them into a Prefecture of Japan?
Noble is in the Band of Samurai who Assassinated the Empereress of Korea?
I like Samurai an thier concepts heck, several of the Ryuha arts that we train in ninjutsu are samurai arts....but ive never held them in the esteem that alot of people do
especially after Visiting the Memorials in Korea for example.
Every country has these kind of Events....but its the actin like Samurai for example were flawless holy do-gooder warriors that gets me sometimes
__________________
“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
Indeed i am,i join in septepmber, and i am far from homosexual (i hope )
On a serious note thought, Ben that opinion is very biased, not all armies are homosexual. Just the navy
I think you missed my point
I was following the line of thought that because a few samurai may have had homosexual tendancies people have named them and generalized them all as homosexuals.
If people want to follow that rule then they have to accept that all armies are homosexual,
I wastn directly saying that, I was simply pointing out the flaw with saying 'all of them must of been homosexual because we have evidence that few may have been'
it wasnt nice, but it wasnt mean
what Im saying is you serve God without question, an admirable trait
as the samurai served their masters without question, again admirable
so actually it was a completment
Interesting and I see the point you are making. However, you know we live in 2 diff universes on this one. I wouldnt equate those two things you just described.
__________________ The name means...No matter how many times you cut him, he will never fall. My soul cutter has no name, it is merely a tool.
I'll Still Kill!
Even the best of men are capable of the most disgusting evil. Just as the most evil man is capable of showing kindness.
Do not be fooled into thinking your enemy's sin is worse than yours, or that your's is better than his.
their is corruption in every organization, just like the american army there is corruption not all samurai were holy do gooders but BUT THERE WERE MANY WHO SWORE BY THE CODE AND WHO LIVED UP TO ALL THAT IT IS. if there where gay samurai then there were very few and rare. KEY WORD IF.
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,252
Home Country:
they werent very rare. if u check out early Japanese writings and paintings u can see them
For the Samurai Class they had the concept of Bi-Do or "the beautiful way" and was known to guard this tradition jealously
a reference for this is Ijiri Chosuke's writings from 1482
All members of the Samurai Class from the lowest warrior to the highest Lord practiced wakashudo or "the way of the youth"
wakashudo is abbreviated to nanshoku which is the current term for
Male gay love its similar to the greek practice in which a Senior warrior would take on a youth as a protege an also had sexual relations with them.
main difference is in Greek culture the Senior would approach the youth. but in Japanese culture it was the youth who was expected to make the first move.
__________________
“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
some people are attacking the samurai for homosexual tendancies, this is wrong because its homophobia and makes the samurai no less of a warrior just because of it
some people are denying that they were homosexual this is wrong because denying that they were homosexual suggests they would be much better if they werent homosexual, which again is homophobia
you have to remember these days its seen as a bad thing by many people, because this is how society has conditioned us. Yet back then they had no such labels as gay and straight, its just something that happened and no one looked down upon it.
would it make a difference to their prestige if they were homosexual, they were still warriors of legend.
(please note when as say 'them' I dont mean every samurai ever to exist, I mean however many of the 'homosexual' samurai we are concerning)
wow Im an aspiring ninja defending the samurai... what an uncomfortable feeling lol
Wow, we sure have our hangups on sexuality. This topic comes up almost every time that the concept of the samurai come up.
This is a non-issue. It is unimportant, unless you haven't yet come to grips with your own sexuality.
I will, however, say again that calling most or all samurai homosexual would be wrong, because most of them enjoyed women. In modern terms, they would either identify themselves as bisexual or, more likely, heterosexual who enjoyed the friendship of another man.
(Not that I'm naive enough to think that this is going to stop that argument, but I've got to try )
When I think of the honor of the samurai, I don't think of the samurai grouped together, as the samurai were human beings, and some of them were bad, some were good. I also don't think of them individually, for the same reasons, unless I am looking for inspiration into a particular trait. I look at the spirit of the code that they followed.
If I look at the samurai as a group, I'm going to see a hodge-podge of acts, some good, some bad, some ineffective. I'm going to see the Oda burning villages of innocents in order to draw out the enemy. I'm also going to see Akechi Mitsuhide turning his back on loyalty in order to uphold justice. I will see samurai following unscrupulous orders, like the subjugation of Okinawa, and I will see samurai forced to break the letter of the code of Bushido in order to abide by the spirit of it.
Looking at the samurai in this way is like looking at Christianity based on the acts that the Catholic Church has perpetrated in God's name over the years. Some of the acts were good, some were terrible. But just because people say that they do something because it's God's will, doesn't mean they actually speak for God.
However, if I look at the spirit of the code, that which they were supposed to aspire to be like, that is when I see something brilliant and shining. The biggest weakness of the spirit of this code is something that drallig and a few others have touched upon, and it's the same weakness that can be found in Christianity and other organized religions, as well as modern armies such as the Marines. Corrupt and charismatic leaders have a way to manipulate those who are under them who follow the code. It takes a great act of will, like that of Akechi or Luther, to rise up against a corrupt leader.
But if one has an honorable leader, or better, if one has the will to take matters into one's own hands should the need arise, Bushido is a powerful code, and can fill one's soul with the fire to do what is necessary for the world to go on.
__________________
"I don't have the knack of victory at all times. I have only learned how not to miss the right moment." Kenshin Uesugi
"If you confer only with people in your own circle (relatives and friends), their opinions will naturally favor you, rendering them useless." Tsunetomo Yamamoto
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change."
Thich Nhat Hanh
Wow, we sure have our hangups on sexuality. This topic comes up almost every time that the concept of the samurai come up.
This is a non-issue. It is unimportant, unless you haven't yet come to grips with your own sexuality.
I will, however, say again that calling most or all samurai homosexual would be wrong, because most of them enjoyed women. In modern terms, they would either identify themselves as bisexual or, more likely, heterosexual who enjoyed the friendship of another man.
(Not that I'm naive enough to think that this is going to stop that argument, but I've got to try )
When I think of the honor of the samurai, I don't think of the samurai grouped together, as the samurai were human beings, and some of them were bad, some were good. I also don't think of them individually, for the same reasons, unless I am looking for inspiration into a particular trait. I look at the spirit of the code that they followed.
If I look at the samurai as a group, I'm going to see a hodge-podge of acts, some good, some bad, some ineffective. I'm going to see the Oda burning villages of innocents in order to draw out the enemy. I'm also going to see Akechi Mitsuhide turning his back on loyalty in order to uphold justice. I will see samurai following unscrupulous orders, like the subjugation of Okinawa, and I will see samurai forced to break the letter of the code of Bushido in order to abide by the spirit of it.
Looking at the samurai in this way is like looking at Christianity based on the acts that the Catholic Church has perpetrated in God's name over the years. Some of the acts were good, some were terrible. But just because people say that they do something because it's God's will, doesn't mean they actually speak for God.
However, if I look at the spirit of the code, that which they were supposed to aspire to be like, that is when I see something brilliant and shining. The biggest weakness of the spirit of this code is something that drallig and a few others have touched upon, and it's the same weakness that can be found in Christianity and other organized religions, as well as modern armies such as the Marines. Corrupt and charismatic leaders have a way to manipulate those who are under them who follow the code. It takes a great act of will, like that of Akechi or Luther, to rise up against a corrupt leader.
But if one has an honorable leader, or better, if one has the will to take matters into one's own hands should the need arise, Bushido is a powerful code, and can fill one's soul with the fire to do what is necessary for the world to go on.
Glad someone found some kernel of usefulness in my work. Thank you for the thought, Ben. :-)
__________________
"I don't have the knack of victory at all times. I have only learned how not to miss the right moment." Kenshin Uesugi
"If you confer only with people in your own circle (relatives and friends), their opinions will naturally favor you, rendering them useless." Tsunetomo Yamamoto
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change."
Thich Nhat Hanh
Wow, we sure have our hangups on sexuality. This topic comes up almost every time that the concept of the samurai come up.
This is a non-issue. It is unimportant, unless you haven't yet come to grips with your own sexuality.
I will, however, say again that calling most or all samurai homosexual would be wrong, because most of them enjoyed women. In modern terms, they would either identify themselves as bisexual or, more likely, heterosexual who enjoyed the friendship of another man.
(Not that I'm naive enough to think that this is going to stop that argument, but I've got to try )
When I think of the honor of the samurai, I don't think of the samurai grouped together, as the samurai were human beings, and some of them were bad, some were good. I also don't think of them individually, for the same reasons, unless I am looking for inspiration into a particular trait. I look at the spirit of the code that they followed.
If I look at the samurai as a group, I'm going to see a hodge-podge of acts, some good, some bad, some ineffective. I'm going to see the Oda burning villages of innocents in order to draw out the enemy. I'm also going to see Akechi Mitsuhide turning his back on loyalty in order to uphold justice. I will see samurai following unscrupulous orders, like the subjugation of Okinawa, and I will see samurai forced to break the letter of the code of Bushido in order to abide by the spirit of it.
Looking at the samurai in this way is like looking at Christianity based on the acts that the Catholic Church has perpetrated in God's name over the years. Some of the acts were good, some were terrible. But just because people say that they do something because it's God's will, doesn't mean they actually speak for God.
However, if I look at the spirit of the code, that which they were supposed to aspire to be like, that is when I see something brilliant and shining. The biggest weakness of the spirit of this code is something that drallig and a few others have touched upon, and it's the same weakness that can be found in Christianity and other organized religions, as well as modern armies such as the Marines. Corrupt and charismatic leaders have a way to manipulate those who are under them who follow the code. It takes a great act of will, like that of Akechi or Luther, to rise up against a corrupt leader.
But if one has an honorable leader, or better, if one has the will to take matters into one's own hands should the need arise, Bushido is a powerful code, and can fill one's soul with the fire to do what is necessary for the world to go on.
Im going to end this discussion, and i will end it in such a way that every one can agree upon.
Fact is there could of been some samurai who had homosexual tendecies, however all samurai were not homosexual's, some where some wernt, just like
in the world now there are homosexual men and heterosexual men. Just because one man is homosexual dosnt mean all are. if one samurai was homosexual then that samurai made his own decision to partake in homosexuality as an idividual. he was 1 person not a hundred, just because he was gay dosnt mean that other samurai were gay and there were not many gay samurai as the person stated in the above quote many samurai enjoyed women. we mind as well be talking about homosexual people instead of homosexual samurai. If a samurai
was gay that was his choice others just looked away and payed no attention.
Conclusion: some samurai were gay some where not, most however where not.
i also understand that there were good samurai and some bad samurai agin this is the personal choice of doing good or evil.
and as for corruption some samurai were brainwashed and the person above them shoved the code in their face and made them think if they didnt follow it
then they were dishonorable when really they were just being manipulated.
but its really stupid to think that since there were a few homosexual samurai that all where homosexual
and its stupid to think that all samurai where bad and that there where no good samurai.
if you are a good samurai follow the code and thought for your self, you are an honorable samurai.
i leave sexuality out of that last comment because its true and when talking about honor and doing good what does sexuality have to do with any of that
absolutly nothing.
i dont agree with homosexuality, i beleive if people were ment to have sex with the same sex then there would only be one sex on this earth. If that was the case most likely we could reproduce on our own and sex would only be a pleasurable activity but bringing new life into the world would not be associated with sex.
As iv said i dont agree with homosexuality but if some one is then that is their own personal choice and it is none of my concern.
please explain this "I will, however, say again that calling most or all samurai homosexual would be wrong, because most of them enjoyed women. In modern terms, they would either identify themselves as bisexual or, more likely, heterosexual who enjoyed the friendship of another man."
If there was a samurai who was bisexual "likeing female's and males" how could he consider him self heterosexual
if he had sexual relations with both females and males. seems like a denile of bisexuality.
But any way the main point is that "well just read my reply agin"
Last edited by living in the way; 06-16-2007 at 11:50 PM.
im confused please help if you can
)
I'll Still Kill!
)
Linear Mode
