Competition

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

I must say I am disappointed in the fact that none of my students want to compete in the AAU State Championships. The State, Region & National tournaments are all within 2 hrs. of driving. These kids have a chance to become National Champions but they don't want to compete. I don't understand the reasoning. How do you know how good you are unless you compete?
I always enter myself - even if I am primarily officiating. I don't enter kumite anymore because I am pushing 60 but I do kata & kobudo and I judge. So I am trying to get my students involved. Some of them used to compete - some are AAU State Champions & my Sempai lost by waza-ari in last year's Nationals. This year nobody is interested and yet it would be within everyone's grasp because it is so logistically close.
I am going to encourage them as much as they can and see what happens. Maybe somebody has ideas on how I can promote the application process.
Thanks,
Tom

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

First I'd like to say thank you for trying to instill in your students the logic of competition. Its a test of skill. Sure sparring in class is good but of course everyone takes it easy on their friends. In class forms arent judged by strangers with an eye intent upon scrutiny.

-Maybe the school pays entrance fees
-Waive class fees for certain placements
-Offer seperate classes for the "team"

Above all else continue to stresst the importance of competition. There is a reason why practice is not as intense as the game...thats because its not the same thing at all!

[souldrum71]

I totally agree with drallig. Competition is a great way to test your training and techniques against others who are not familiar with you. Many people don't want to compete or put down competition because they are simply afraid of failure.
We do several things to encourage the students at our school to compete. We have a seperate competition class one night each week, and we have really nice competition uniforms that only members of the competition team are allowed to wear. We also allow team members to wear those uniforms during our club tournaments.

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

souldrum71,

Special uniforms is a good idea but to get the parents to buy an application to compete is enough expense to overcome but the added expense of a special uniform would be prohibitive. I need to convince these kids, all of whom have the capabilities to compete. My mindset is that you need to jump in the water in order to swim.
Back in the day you could enter a tournment for $5-$10 now its $55. Now they need special equipment another $100. Monetarily I can empathize with the costs. In this case though - it is an opportunity to do all the comps in driving range.
I need ideas to sell this opportunity to my students & parents.

Thanks,
Tom

[Sake Sipper]

If this one tournament is the first time most of them are being confronted with the notion of competition, of course a lot of them are going to be put off. (and what kind of 'national' championship doesn't come at the end of an extensive state, regional, and local qualifier system?) Aren't there other dojo in your area where you could set up a series of informal comps a couple of times a month or something? Get them into the competition mindset and they'll start to see for themselves what benefits there are for them (and probably train a hell of a lot harder).

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

We do compete in local tournaments. My students usually do quite well. there is just this lack of motivation to compete that i need to overcome. I feel that this is small window of great opportunity after over 35 yrs, in the martial ats.

Thanks,
Tom

[ladyfighter]

I will say this, "costs" were a big concern with me when we (souldrum & I) were starting the competition team. However, we have "sponsors" for students who can not afford the uniforms pluss the additional costs of competition. Also, you could try and get local businesses to sponsor your Competition Team, or have a car wash - bake sales- pizza sales, etc. There are Many ways that you could raise money for the costs of tournaments, equipments and such! Perhaps having "competition syle" fights in your regular martial arts class could help encourage your younger students to enter. (if they see themselves as winners or "standing a chance" they are more likely to enter) However, with all competitions your students do stand a chance of walking away with nothing at all Most open tournaments do not offer "spirit medals" for those who participate but do not place. Try encouraging your students by providing your own spirit medals for those who do not place at the tournament. (this will help motiviate them to continue to compete and parents feel that they didn't just waist their money)

Another way to motivate competition is to hold several "club tournaments" a year in your own school!! Charge say $15 and makesure everyone who competes gets something, and at the end of the year, offer a large trophy or plaque for those that competed all year as an additional incenative!!

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

Thanks for all the great ideas. I will do my best to get some of them to compete. I think it is important because you have to face & overcome almost the same feelings you would feel in a street fight.
Thanks,
Tom

[Sake Sipper]

Originally Posted by ladyfighter

However, with all competitions your students do stand a chance of walking away with nothing at all

Of course. That's sort of what makes it a "competition."

Originally Posted by ladyfighter

Most open tournaments do not offer "spirit medals" for those who participate but do not place.

Thank goodness. That kind of nonsense guts the very purpose and steals the most imporant lessons from competition.

Originally Posted by ladyfighter

Try encouraging your students by providing your own spirit medals for those who do not place at the tournament.

I could not disagree more. The whole point of competition is that someone wins and someone loses. Take that away (or try to hide it behind BS 'you did good anyway!' prizes) and you take away the motivation, inspiration, and learning potential of competition. That sort of thing is silly and pointless even for little kids, but I shudder to think that any self-respecting adult (or older kid even) would accept such a hollow, condescending insult. That would be reason enough to stay away from any given tournament.

[Chapel]

Sake Sipper, I have to disagree. Consolation prizes do not ruin the whole point of a martial arts competition because the main idea is not to see who is better, but rather to give students a tangible reason to improve over time. If a young student's spirit is crushed in a competition and they decide to quit, who does that benefit? The rules of competitions clearly indicate this intent. Why else would you divide people up based on weight, age, gender and rank? If the purpose was to just see who is better, then why bother with these separations at all?

Sensei Tom, I think one of the factors that may be preventing your students from going to competitions is they don't see it the same way you do. Now, cards on the table full disclosure, neither do I. Where as you may see glory for the school and a chance to showcase skills, they may see an expensive way to stroke their ego. So, maybe you will need to convince them to see it your way on a one-to-one basis.

[Sake Sipper]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Consolation prizes do not ruin the whole point of a martial arts competition because the main idea is not to see who is better

Well, that's where I leave this discussion, because I find this attitude absolutely offensive. Bordering on immoral. Feh.

[WC_Lun]

I liked the guys and gals I trained to compete occasionally so they would know what it was like to do martial arts under stress. I like catching up with old friends, seeing the younger people have fun, and be with a bunch of people who share similiar interest. I don't compete myself any longer. I find it kinda pointless right now. I told students I trained, "Go out there and show them what you do. If you fight, protect yourself and learn. I don't care if you win or lose as long as you do your best and learn something from the experience." I think too often tournaments turn into something ugly, with egoes out of control and politics running rampant. If a student experiences tournaments like these then it will be difficult to get them to go to more, and I can't say I blame them.

[Torre]

I have to agree with Sake Sipper. "Spirit medals" or whatever are practically unknown here, and for a reason. They are pathetic, in my opinion. If my student loses but did well regardless, a verbal compliment is enough. And as for competition, I hardly do it but that's because the lack of open full-contact tournaments around. I hate the WKF no-contact rules

[47MartialMan]

The tourneys that I sponsored, or co-sponsored, had trophies and/or medals for every registered partcipant. I/we didnt like the idea of anyone going home empty-handed for their effort.

I had written a article about tourneys for my younger students about 20 years ago. I thought I posted it here. If I find it I'll link it or post it.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

For the kids spirit medals dont bother me. Highschool (14 yr olds) and up should have to deal with losing like an adult.

Then again Sensai Tom's whole purpose of this thread is to encourage his students to compete. So to all of you came into the thread and just bashed other people's helpful suggestions, good job no spirit trophy for you.