Are ninjas people who practise ninjitsu?

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Ben

So in present tense I dot believe ninja exist, which technically answers the question. Because I think the title is unobtainable.

Technically, Ninjas may still exist nowadays.

If you study Shinobi_Kokujin' post #11, in response to my post #8.

(There are some that would like me to be a Ninja on this forum. )

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

why do you think the title is unobtainable? and whats practiced today is imitation?

I explained why I think the tite is unobtainable.

Its an imitation becuse there is no function or truth in it, the fact of the matter is that in modern day society there is no need for assasins of the ninja eleent, yes thier skills can be aken and used, such as kenjutsu, or taijutsu but the finction of the ninja is no longer applicable, is there really any shogun that need assasination for vast sums of gold?

The truth is in functionm, people claiming they are ninja is just a sad excuse for people who cant accept what they are, and are trying to be unique.

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Technically, Ninjas may still exist nowadays.

If you study Shinobi_Kokujin' post #11, in response to my post #8.

(There are some that would like me to be a Ninja on this forum. )

I read the post, very nice, but Im talking about ninja as a function and form, not a word, with a defintion that could branch of in so many directions.

arent we all just students?

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

Originally Posted by Ben

I explained why I think the tite is unobtainable.

Its an imitation becuse there is no function or truth in it, the fact of the matter is that in modern day society there is no need for assasins of the ninja eleent, yes thier skills can be aken and used, such as kenjutsu, or taijutsu but the finction of the ninja is no longer applicable, is there really any shogun that need assasination for vast sums of gold?

The truth is in functionm, people claiming they are ninja is just a sad excuse for people who cant accept what they are, and are trying to be unique.



the assassin deal is often taken out of context and blown up

I read the post, very nice, but Im talking about ninja as a function and form, not a word, with a defintion that could branch of in so many directions.

arent we all just students?

how is it an imitation if its a system thats been passed down from generation to generation? the same thing with your arts or any other art. there are some nut jobs who make the claim to be unique as u said.

but it seems like your views on ninja in modern society is based on misinformation. like me an Draven type all the time.
hired assassins isnt the only thing that ninja did historically

an not all factions or clans dealt exclusively in assassination
asaasination or sneaking around is are just small parts or skill sets out of many other skill sets.

fictional depiction of ninja only concentrate on the stealthy assassin clothed in black part which gives an incomplete representation of thats what all its about.

other types of warriors do the same thing but on ninja. functions include scholar, warrior, guerilla tactics, constant upgrade an innovations of weapons, spirituality , martial arts etc. why wouldnt these be applicable in modern society when they are constantly being used an innovated on today?

these are some of the many functions of ninja. people who come from different walks of like that happen to practice ninjutsu do these such as military personel, law enforcement, body gaurds, musicians , Spiritual and Educational teachers etc.

some people use thier functions to contribute positively or...patriotically to society, some may use thier functions for other means which goes with nin carrying the meaning of also one's perception of right an wrong, positive and negative, choice in the path they want to take

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

how is it an imitation if its a system thats been passed down from generation to generation? the same thing with your arts or any other art. there are some nut jobs who make the claim to be unique as u said.

but it seems like your views on ninja in modern society is based on misinformation. like me an Draven type all the time.
hired assassins isnt the only thing that ninja did historically

an not all factions or clans dealt exclusively in assassination
asaasination or sneaking around is are just small parts or skill sets out of many other skill sets.

fictional depiction of ninja only concentrate on the stealthy assassin clothed in black part which gives an incomplete representation of thats what all its about.

other types of warriors do the same thing but on ninja. functions include scholar, warrior, guerilla tactics, constant upgrade an innovations of weapons, spirituality , martial arts etc. why wouldnt these be applicable in modern society when they are constantly being used an innovated on today?

these are some of the many functions of ninja. people who come from different walks of like that happen to practice ninjutsu do these such as military personel, law enforcement, body gaurds, musicians , Spiritual and Educational teachers etc.

some people use thier functions to contribute positively or...patriotically to society, some may use thier functions for other means which goes with nin carrying the meaning of also one's perception of right an wrong, positive and negative, choice in the path they want to take

good argument, +rep

But I disagree that ninja is a title worth getting or attianable, the skills they developed are not unique to the ninja, and a useful as he skills the learnt maybe, the ninja 'culture' if you like is just not needed.

ninjutsu is the creation and mix of many arts and skills, as you said and these skillls are useful and worth keeping band even all of ninjutsu, but the title ninja is a waste of time.

Ninjutsu student would be far more appropriate.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

what is "ninja culture" from your understanding? and your right about the skills not being unique because during the development of ninjutsu, some of the esoterical side, spiritual, martial arts, and strategies pertaining to warfare etc. were influenced by other cultures.

but for practicioners of ninjutsu at least in the Bujinkan thats one of the reasons we refer to ourselves as budoka or buyu or shinobi

if your studying the art and living by the ways of its concepts an tenets then in relation to ninjutsu that would make one a "ninja" or shinobi to me. not the stereotypical misconstrued portrayal displayed by popular media.

which Hatsumi Sensie, Jinichi Kawakami, and other Grandmasters have stated is nowhere near what ninjutsu is all about.

the student progresses through the levels from kyu grades to shodan BB through Godan to Shidoshi

like how a Karateka progresses from kyu grades to the BB dan grades.

we're all students but in our arts we have the terms for the students of those particular arts

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Ben

ninjutsu is the creation and mix of many arts and skills, as you said and these skillls are useful and worth keeping band even all of ninjutsu, but the title ninja is a waste of time.

Ninjutsu student would be far more appropriate.

What do you mean by waste of time?

[Draven]

Nin = endurance, stealth
Ja = One who
Ninja= One Who Endures, One who Practices Endurance, One who Hides, One who practices stealth, one who is stealthy.

Ninjutsu = Art of Endurance, Art of Stealth

Why would a person who practices those skills sets not be a ninja? Remember the term ninja was generic and given to bandits, rebels, ronin, fugitives, spies, assassins, scouts and samurai generals who used such type of people. If the Yakuza can be consider "ninja" why can't someone who actually learns ninjutsu?

[Ben]

Il say it again and answer the questions the last three poss put to e

Ninjas existed a long time a go, why try to recreate something that died out a long time ago.

Naming people ninja does not make anyone any better at martial arts, its a useless title.

Now I ask you the oposing question, why bother to dicide who is ninja and who isnt?

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Ben

Il say it again and answer the questions the last three poss put to e

Ninjas existed a long time a go, why try to recreate something that died out a long time ago.

Naming people ninja does not make anyone any better at martial arts, its a useless title.

Now I ask you the oposing question, why bother to dicide who is ninja and who isnt?

Yeah but if we use ninja as a sense of someone who practises ninjitsu, nobody is recreating anything, to my knowledge, ninjitsu has just been passed down.

And calling somebody a ninja doesn't make anybody better at martial arts, but at the same token, neither does boxer, wrestler, judoka et cetera. Isn't the title just something that tells you what the person practises? The same reasoning could be applied to your question, why bother figuring out who's a boxer?

[Ben]

Because the term ninja, like anyone is more than a word, its the meaning that word implies.

No one truly knows what ninja where, most of any martial lineage is based on word of mouth and subject to debate, to use the term for anyone who practises ninjutsu chepaen the meaning of the word.

I would not call a kenjutsu student a samurai, nor a wax model a human.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

i dont think anyone implied naming one a "ninja" makes them better. just talking about titles an terms for people who practice certain arts


ninja and ninjutsu never died out. historically alot of clans were wiped out , some went underground, some adopted the modern Budo concepts like many other Japanese arts did

like for instance......if u was to take a ninjutsu's certain art like togakure-ryu....if u took that scroll for yourself

and attempted to learn it....you wouldnt be able to fully understand and apply the techniques properly because of the way

the scroll is written and drawn. its done so in a way that is "hidden in plain site". under a qualified instructor you would get the proper application of the techniques and understanding of the scroll.


for your opposing question

incidentally an example in the case of ninja would be some tools i was watching on youtube a while ago whove never trained in ninjutsu but they watched a couple of "online courses" from a TKD / Hapkido dude claimin to be a ninja and they in turn, who are made assistant instructors

don ninja suits an teach crappy techniques to impressionable others giving them a false sense of instruction

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Ben

Because the term ninja, like anyone is more than a word, its the meaning that word implies.

No one truly knows what ninja where, most of any martial lineage is based on word of mouth and subject to debate, to use the term for anyone who practises ninjutsu chepaen the meaning of the word.

I would not call a kenjutsu student a samurai, nor a wax model a human.

But that's what I'm tryna find out, what if the word was made for people who practises ninjitsu?

Yeah but to be a samurai you had to be registered I believe, and to be a human you need tissue samples, which a wax model doesn't have. And in my opinion, kenjutsu is not as tightly knit with the samurai as ninjitsu to ninja. Samurais relied more than on just their sword, such as archery, the use of naginatas et cetera.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Ben

I explained why I think the tite is unobtainable.

Its an imitation becuse there is no function or truth in it, the fact of the matter is that in modern day society there is no need for assasins of the ninja eleent, yes thier skills can be aken and used, such as kenjutsu, or taijutsu but the finction of the ninja is no longer applicable, is there really any shogun that need assasination for vast sums of gold?

Mercenaries?

Originally Posted by Ben

The truth is in functionm, people claiming they are ninja is just a sad excuse for people who cant accept what they are, and are trying to be unique.

For the most part.....I guess.

Originally Posted by Ben

I read the post, very nice, but Im talking about ninja as a function and form, not a word, with a defintion that could branch of in so many directions.

arent we all just students?

Yeah, just htought I throw it out there....sssshtick (sound of shuriken hitting a wall)

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Ben

Il say it again and answer the questions the last three poss put to e

Ninjas existed a long time a go, why try to recreate something that died out a long time ago.

Naming people ninja does not make anyone any better at martial arts, its a useless title.

Now I ask you the oposing question, why bother to dicide who is ninja and who isnt?

Like you said its a useless title, but some people need a title to give them some sort of self empowerment. Which better to have a 13 year old read "ninjitsu books" or take actual classes on ninjitsu and call themselves a "ninja" for doing so. Or go out and rob lil old ladies and call themselves a Crip or a Blood? All titles (belts, trophies etc) are useless, the only award for a soldier who kills the enemy on the battlefield is living to kill again the next day. The only usefulness for a martial art is being able to defend yourself and empower yourself through learning to take action everything else is ego...

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Draven

Like you said its a useless title, but some people need a title to give them some sort of self empowerment. Which better to have a 13 year old read "ninjitsu books" or take actual classes on ninjitsu and call themselves a "ninja" for doing so. Or go out and rob lil old ladies and call themselves a Crip or a Blood? All titles (belts, trophies etc) are useless, the only award for a soldier who kills the enemy on the battlefield is living to kill again the next day. The only usefulness for a martial art is being able to defend yourself and empower yourself through learning to take action everything else is ego...

More reasons why I dont like to post my styles/ranks....thanks.....