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Japanese Martial ArtsDiscuss Japanese style Martial Arts here - Aikido, Iaido, Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Karate, Kenpo, Kendo, Kyudo, Kyudo, Ninjitsu, Sumo
Oh in your books? Well, why didn't you say so? Since apparently your books are magic books that make things mean whatever the heck you want them to, then that makes perfect sense.
Yes, it also makes perfect sense that the Japanese Government in WW2 and throughout the Shino war (Japan's conflict before and through American involvment in ww2) they impressed the idea of modern Samurai upon their soldiers. In the soldiers' "books" they were samurai and whose book is more important your's or their's? In reality your beliefs and in turn their own beliefs mean nothing if others simply do not agree with them. To the soldier who needs motivation the idea of being the modern Samurai is an important idea, for your historical-minded beliefs the idea seems "less then practical." But, to each individual their book is the "magic book" that makes all things right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapel
A samurai rebellion is an interesting concept if only because they were supposed to be 100 percent loyal to their country (I think), which would, in theory, involve following unjust laws and moving through the proper channels to make changes to those laws. I hope I am not talking out of my ass here, I am only vague recalling some study I did a while back on Shinto belief.
Well yes and no, swearing loyalty is not the same as mindlessly following orders. Comparing the modernization of many ideas, I'll go with the here in the U.S. all soldiers, marines, seamen and airmen take an oath to up hold the constitution and the ideas of the consitution. By that standard Bush became an enemy to the ideas and the constitution itself when he called "just a piece of paper." So some civic-minded Veteran or Soldier trying to take out Bush as part of thier oath to "defend the constitution" could be justified in that persons mind. By comparision a samurai who swore an oath to Bushido and to the spirit of his path could see the Empirer's actions as debasing that spirit and thus rebellion would seen morally correct in that individual's mind. The issue of which is, what is more correct to follow an infalible idea or a falible person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeStupidGuy
I would definitely consider an undercover government agent more of the modern day ninja, than what most schools call, "Ninjitsu"
Careful thats an arguement that is shared with the "fake" ninjitsu schools and the very real Nakano Espionage School in WW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47MartialMan
Why cant there be samurai existing in these times like ninjas?
Samurai was a class while ninja was a term for those who existed outside that class. In many ways the Japanese Defense Force could be seen as modern Samurai the same way a modern spy pr terrorist could be seen as a modern ninja.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
Yes, it also makes perfect sense that the Japanese Government in WW2 and throughout the Shino war they impressed the idea of modern Samurai upon their soldiers.
They encouraged the spirit of Bushido, they did not revive the Samurai class. You are just spinning and playing with words again to indulge your child-like imagination.
They encouraged the spirit of Bushido, they did not revive the Samurai class. You are just spinning and playing with words again to indulge your child-like imagination.
No, I'm stating very clearly that the idea of "being one who serves a higher cause" (samurai means "one who serves" after all) is not limited to government distinctions. Thats the paradox of dealing with the world perception is not reality, but many will treat their preception as reality. I can't fly just because I have Superman Boxers and a cape, but I can still leap from a window and die trying. A soldier told to embrace the spirit of bushido and became a "modern samurai" isn't returning to a fuedual culture, but it is still reviving the preception of being "elite" by "serving a higher cause" and in turn motivating that individual to act. This is no different then cult-like psuedo-religious indocturination; the cause a false belief system has the effect of inspiring a person to act as such. Its a mild form of brain washing that is still used on individuals today. Especially in those systems which are trying to keep alive a "dieing tradition."
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
LOL this conversation is gold!! It's gold Jerry I tell you gold!!!!
Draven could you please summarize your position.
My position ninjas aren't real, not in the sense that most think of them anyway.
Sure...
Samurai Arguement:
A soldier told to embrace the spirit of bushido and became a "modern samurai" isn't returning to a fuedual culture, but it is still reviving the preception of being "elite" by "serving a higher cause" and in turn motivating that individual to act. This is no different then cult-like psuedo-religious indocturination; the cause a false belief system has the effect of inspiring a person to act as such.
To the individual he/her faith in being a samurai is how they define themselves and they will begin living up to that belief. This IS NOT recreating the cast system but using the cast system as a social definitiuon based on the ideology. Basically telling someone they are a samurai to get to them to act with respect and discipline is the same as telling someone you'll get 70 virgins in the after-life if you blow yourself up.
Ninja Arguement:
Since the term ninja (shinobi) existed as a label to either those who either existed outside of normal society (spies, assassins, criminals, rebels, etc) it isn't a cast title and/or that the term in ninja means "one who endures/hides/is invisible" etc and that ninjutsu means "Enduring or Invisible Art" one who endures or in invisible (stealthy) by practicing ninjutsu could be called a ninja.
I DO NOT belive in black clad assassins running around on roof tops and urban legends of ninja clans in the mountains lol
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
For some reason, believing people can fly in other countries seems more realistic than believing they can fly here maybe?
I dressed up in a ninja suit to an anime/film convention, don't ask me why, I just like walking around in public with a balaclava. Anyways, I went outside to the dock with my mate who was also in a ninja suit, at this point, we were still outside the exhibition centre, and you could see nerds running around in Naruto costumes and what not. A group of thugs came up to us and went, "Go jump in the water."
I reply, "Why on Earth would I want to that?"
And his answer? "Cos ninjas can fly blud, I seen it on TV."
Not only do we ninjas believe we can fly, the public do as well.
I dressed up in a ninja suit to an anime/film convention, don't ask me why, I just like walking around in public with a balaclava. Anyways, I went outside to the dock with my mate who was also in a ninja suit, at this point, we were still outside the exhibition centre, and you could see nerds running around in Naruto costumes and what not. A group of thugs came up to us and went, "Go jump in the water."
I reply, "Why on Earth would I want to that?"
And his answer? "Cos ninjas can fly blud, I seen it on TV."
Not only do we ninjas believe we can fly, the public do as well.
Ninja should have vanished at that point
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Careful thats an arguement that is shared with the "fake" ninjitsu schools and the very real Nakano Espionage School in WW2
I might be misreading this, but you are saying that I think the same thing both real and fake schools think?????? You say my argument is shared, is why I say this.
Are ninjas people who practise ninjitsu?
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