Is Karate a Japanese Art?

[Jazzarati]

Dave Lowry wrote a bit (not huge amounts) about this I think in his book 'Traditions'. I'll double check what it says tomorrow.

[Militis]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Interesting and "somewhat" the "general history".

I hadn't ever come across anything where the Chinese took over Okinawa and applied a weapons ban.

I have come across a lot of articles that mentioned Chinas weapon band on Okinawa. It could have helped with the development of the art. I do know that the nunchuka and sai were developed during this era.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Martial arts in general were developed to give someone an advantage in a fight. Now, if everyone's fighting abilities were naturally the same, then there wouldn't be much of a need for extensive martial arts. So, martial arts main goal was and is to allow you to defeat opponents who would have normally beat you. Speaking in the utmost of generalities, it wouldn't matter if your opponent was bigger than you or had a weapon.

Karate is Japanese/Okinawan (depending on the particular style), just as I am American. It really doesn't matter that my ancestors came from Europe (and their ancestors came from the Middle East and their ancestors came from Africa and their ancestors came from Pangaea and their ancestors came from the ocean) I am an American.

Yeah but you weren't born in Europe, Karate was essentially in my knowledge, 'born' in the Okinawan Islands. But if you were moved into America after being born in Europe, like Karate was 'moved' to Japan, would you consider yourself European or American?

Did that make sense? :P

And does the influences of a martial art really affect where it was made, I'm not sure if this is a good comparison, but BJJ was derived from Judo, a Japanese martial art, but nobody hints in the system being Japanese.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

after doing some further reading on my own on Karate. to me, Karate is Japanese. Okinawan in Origin with some Chinese influence, but Definately Japanese. (being that Okinawa is a Prefecture of Japan also).


during WW2 when Karate started to become more known in the west other than Judo. historians and authors on books on Karate, even alot of the practicioners such as Mitose would add the "Chinese influence"/ "Chinese origin" tag to Karate

to sorta throw people off that Karate wasnt exclusively Japanese since during that time period there was alot of Anti-Japanese sentiment due to the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

and even after the war.....the tag stuck with Karate in a sense.

now when you get down to the techniques and training curriculum. it further shows that Karate is Definetly Japanese. techniques are generally executed in a more straight forward motion.

many Karate systems like Goju-ryu and Shorin-ryu have the similar circular movements in Chinese styles where techniques flow from one to another. but Karate is more modified in its approach.....

which further makes it Japanese cause of they way of its developent coming from Okinawan and Japanese people. though i use the term Japanese generally since Okinawa is part of Japan.

[SirokiFighter]

its a japanese martial art.
if residents of Okinawa can call themselves japanese, then karate can be called japanese.
and karate had many influences from other arts.
does it matter?

[Jason]

Originally Posted by SirokiFighter

its a japanese martial art.
if residents of Okinawa can call themselves japanese, then karate can be called japanese.
and karate had many influences from other arts.
does it matter?

I agree, I mean, I hear that Wu Shu has Indian influences, it's not hinted as an Indian art.

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by GoddeBPM

Yeah but you weren't born in Europe, Karate was essentially in my knowledge, 'born' in the Okinawan Islands. But if you were moved into America after being born in Europe, like Karate was 'moved' to Japan, would you consider yourself European or American?

Did that make sense? :P

And does the influences of a martial art really affect where it was made, I'm not sure if this is a good comparison, but BJJ was derived from Judo, a Japanese martial art, but nobody hints in the system being Japanese.

This is actually exactly my point. I am not European because I was not born in Europe. By the same token, Karate is not Chinese. Just as I am American, Karate is Japanese/Okinawan.

(In modern day terms there isn't a distinct country Okinawa much as there is not a distinct Whales. So I think arguing that is only slightly more effective than beating one's head against a wall.)

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Chapel

This is actually exactly my point. I am not European because I was not born in Europe. By the same token, Karate is not Chinese. Just as I am American, Karate is Japanese/Okinawan.

(In modern day terms there isn't a distinct country Okinawa much as there is not a distinct Whales. So I think arguing that is only slightly more effective than beating one's head against a wall.)

Hmm.. I get what your saying, but by the same token, I'm not Chinese as I wasn't born in China, but stick me next to a group of high class English boys, it'll be like Where's Waldo and a massive pop-up arrow pointing right at him.

[SirokiFighter]

my thing is saying karate is chinese is just wrong. as there were chinese influences in the creation of karate there were also japanese influences, and other influences. this whole thing is why ithere is what some would call mainland and okinawan karate. however i will say this, which many others have said

Okinawa is part of Japan. Okinawans are Japanese. Karate is Japanese.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by SirokiFighter

my thing is saying karate is chinese is just wrong. as there were chinese influences in the creation of karate there were also japanese influences, and other influences. this whole thing is why ithere is what some would call mainland and okinawan karate. however i will say this, which many others have said

Okinawa is part of Japan. Okinawans are Japanese. Karate is Japanese.

Indeed.


Origin/influence may have a dfferent bearing on what is indigenous to a certain culture.


However, doing the development of Okinawan tode/tangte, was Okinawa Japanese?

Of course, the semantics of the word/coined term will point it to Japanese.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Interesting and "somewhat" the "general history".

I hadn't ever come across anything where the Chinese took over Okinawa and applied a weapons ban.

I'm going off books I've read on the history of Okinawa. Seems Okinawa was never officially taken over the incedent I was refering was not the Chinese Government directly. It was some kind of informal invasion, much the same way the U.S. is trying to do in Iran today.

Throughout different times in history the Okinawans have had different weapons bans, issued against them. But the book I am thinking of is in storeage at the moment will all my other stuff. The basic idea was that long before the Japanese invasions China threaten to invade Okinawa. The Okinawans convinced the Chinese it would be a bloody waste of Chinese soilders, so the Chinese tried to slowly intigrate the Okinawans. A soft invasion was used instead and the Okinawan King issued a weapons ban but only for location where Chinese diplomats were located and only during the times they were there not the entire country, and also set-up "education centers" to influence the Okinawans with Chinese Ideas and turn Okinawa into an extention of Chinese Teritory. The exact details I can't give but thats because I don't have the history book I'm quoting from.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Draven

I'm going off books I've read on the history of Okinawa. Seems Okinawa was never officially taken over the incedent I was refering was not the Chinese Government directly. It was some kind of informal invasion, much the same way the U.S. is trying to do in Iran today.

Throughout different times in history the Okinawans have had different weapons bans, issued against them. But the book I am thinking of is in storeage at the moment will all my other stuff. The basic idea was that long before the Japanese invasions China threaten to invade Okinawa. The Okinawans convinced the Chinese it would be a bloody waste of Chinese soilders, so the Chinese tried to slowly intigrate the Okinawans. A soft invasion was used instead and the Okinawan King issued a weapons ban but only for location where Chinese diplomats were located and only during the times they were there not the entire country, and also set-up "education centers" to influence the Okinawans with Chinese Ideas and turn Okinawa into an extention of Chinese Teritory. The exact details I can't give but thats because I don't have the history book I'm quoting from.

Well, until you get the book, and reference it here, I think it maybe a moot point of one that you may have mis-read. IMHO