Ever feel bad?

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

I was doing kumite with an aggresive 20 yr. old white belt tonight. I kicked him with chudan, yoko geri & he went down like a sack of potatoes. I found myself telling him to try & relax, that he was not going to die, even if he may have felt like it. I tried to console him but I still felt like a cad. I did not kick him hard but I hit him right in the solar plexus. I know it is better that he experience this in the dojo rather than the street but I still feel very awkward whenever it happens.
What else can you do? Anybody else ever had this experience?

Thanks,
TomDon't say woulda, coulda, shoulda.Tom O'Brien

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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:13 am
Location: New York
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[Gambatte Karate]

I've done this many times to one of my students. He is training for MMA now in our school. I make it a point to hit him there as often as possible now. Why and I so mean? Because he WILL get hit there again by someone else who is not as nice as I am.

The first time, I stopped immediately, and helped him to recover. I keep right in his face so he can see me, and let him know repeatedly that he will be fine in a second. Then I try to get him to stretch out a little at a time to aide in the recovery. It always hurts a little, but I'm now on the fourth time, so now he knows it's a problem and knows how to fix it. He also knows that I'm aiming for him right there.

[MaliMisho]

I wouldn't worry about it. That's just how things go sometimes, accidents happen. Eventually he'll need to know what it feels like to be hit anyway.

And if he's 20, he should be able to take a little pain.

[WC_Lun]

Tom, I feel bad everytime something like that happens. I don't like hurting people. However, I know that sometimes it is much better a student feel some pain by my hand than get injured by another person's hand on the street. That helps with my concious a little

[TKD&JKD]

When I was a white belt there was a young woman 20 something who was overly agressive. She would always bull rush in to avoid allowing me to use my reach. One time i was putting up an axe kick and she rushed right into it and she caught the kick in the nose. I felt terrible.

[Dean]

I wouldn't feel bad. Sometimes white belts need that, to know what your teaching is real. And now maybe he will have more control when he is sparring.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

my recent one was doing choreography with a senior fella against a knife attack, after doing the knife disarm i did a shoulder throw and he got bruised up. i thought that as a senior he would know how to react

but sometimes u come across people with very bad ukemi. i felt kinda bad hearing him scream and curse in the Korean tongue.....but i was like

man u need to step your game up and have better ukemi cause this was on a mat. ive been thrown around on grass, snow, and wooden floors.

[souldrum71]

I've had this happen many times. More so while training in Japan than in the U.S. It was actually kind of a requirement in Seishin Juku to try and put some pain on the new students during their first night of class.

The way I figure it is, you're in a martial arts class, you should expect some bloody noses, busted lips, and plenty of bruises. And, of course, sooner or later someone is going to get their breath knocked out or get knocked unconscious. It just comes with the territory.

[Joemoplata]

While not quite the same, there have been times when sparring with lower belts I have hurt them when they refused to tap. I always feel really bad, but I mean come on, tap already!

We kind of have an unwritten rule, brand new guys you let go if they're not tapping simply because they may not have seen the move before and may not fully understand that something is about to get broken. But after a few weeks, that is over with and now the pain starts!

[MaliMisho]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

While not quite the same, there have been times when sparring with lower belts I have hurt them when they refused to tap. I always feel really bad, but I mean come on, tap already!

We kind of have an unwritten rule, brand new guys you let go if they're not tapping simply because they may not have seen the move before and may not fully understand that something is about to get broken. But after a few weeks, that is over with and now the pain starts!

At my school, when the upper guys get you in a lock, they apply pressure very slowly and will usually ask you repeatedly if you want to tap.

When I'm caught in a move I don't know I'll usually tap early because I don't know what it takes to brake something if I've never seen it. So when an upper guy gets me in a leg lock for instance, I've never done any of them since white belts don't do leg locks, I tap right away.

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

Thanks Guys,

I needed that slap of reality. I was allowing myself to go soft. I definitely don't want to water down the training. I would be remiss if I don't keep it real. We pride ourselves on prioritizing self defense. All the stuff that is out-lawed in MMA & TMA competition, these are the things we stress to do first. I'm not going to change anything. Like I said in another post - if it works, don't fix it!

Thanks,
Tom

[souldrum71]

Originally Posted by Sensei Tom OBrien

Thanks Guys,

I needed that slap of reality. I was allowing myself to go soft. I definitely don't want to water down the training. I would be remiss if I don't keep it real. We pride ourselves on prioritizing self defense. All the stuff that is out-lawed in MMA & TMA competition, these are the things we stress to do first. I'm not going to change anything. Like I said in another post - if it works, don't fix it!

Thanks,
Tom

Good for you, Tom. If they can't handle the physicality, then maybe they should take up knitting or ballet and leave martial arts to the real men and women.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by Sensei Tom OBrien

Thanks Guys,

I needed that slap of reality. I was allowing myself to go soft. I definitely don't want to water down the training. I would be remiss if I don't keep it real. We pride ourselves on prioritizing self defense. All the stuff that is out-lawed in MMA & TMA competition, these are the things we stress to do first. I'm not going to change anything. Like I said in another post - if it works, don't fix it!

Thanks,
Tom

Tom, you know I'm going to jump on this one so I gotta ask:

What exactly do you think is "out-lawed" in MMA competition?

[TKD&JKD]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

Tom, you know I'm going to jump on this one so I gotta ask:

What exactly do you think is "out-lawed" in MMA competition?

I knew, and I was waiting.

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

The list is pretty long. A couple are: eye strikes/gouges, groin strikes/kicks/knees/grabs, small joint locks/finger breaks, biting, spitting, head butts (to the face or head), and these:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

Thanks,
Tom