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I hear ya. The late Carlson Gracie and most of his immediate disciples (Mario Sperry, the head of Brazilian Top Tea most notably) used to always reply to the question "How do you open someone's guard?" with "Open him up with strikes". This holds true for any grappling situation. If you watch the old Royce Gracie fights they usually went like this:
1. Front kick the guy to gauge distance and distract.
2. Shoot.
3. Strike to distract.
4. Takedown.
5. Use strikes to establish mount.
6. Strike until opponent rolls over.
7. Choke or strike until choke is open.
All of Rickson Gracies fights look like this as well. The striking is used to setup the position or submission. This is a consistent message with any BJJ guy I have ever trained with whos concentration was MMA or "Self Defense".
No doubt Carlson was all about using strikes to distract your oppnent and set up your submissions. You can also look at his early Vale Tudo fights and see the same thing. Or more recently Migel's total domination of Chase Bebe for the WEC 135 title. I was disapointed in that fight not because Migel won, of course I was happy about that, but Chase looked like garbage, he throw like one crappy shot.
In the early UFCs I always hated the way Royce shot in he'd shoot in from like a ridiculous range but, goes to show if you don't train to defend the take down you won't be able to do it real life.
So, being the better grappler is an advantage, and being 'aware' is something you don't need to spend years of your life learning. It seems to me that too many inferior grapplers (or whatever-ers) are eager to believe that congratulating themselves on their 'awareness' somehow makes up for the fact that they have demonstrably inferior skills. Instead of focusing on bolstering those skills, they find it easier and more comforting to tell themselves that the guys who toss them around like children in the gym/dojo/dojang/kwoon/whatever suddenly become their equals on 'da street' because of their super awareness (or worse, their 'deadly' techniques they are holding in reserve)...
Very true, but notice I said being aware doen't cut it if you don't know what your looking for. That and most guys who talk are just all talk anyway.
I teach what I call street focus jujitsu, a little mixed JJJ, Karate & Ninjitsu principles. Not grappling skills aren't the best but the idea isn't bto be the best grappler, striker but the survivor at the end of the day. So all that "awareness training" comes done to a small list;
attention to details
body language
commonly improvised weapons
common set up methods of assaults and ambushes
basic psychology
plus techniques like striking, sweeps, takedowns, throws and groundfighting.
I can spend all day telling guys to look out for blind corners or these signs or I can make them watch out for the "thugs" in class which change everyone at random. I also use training exercises which go beyonf techniques like what we nicknamed the "Circle of Light."
Basically we cut of the lights, except a few black lights, put on some very loud metal & line ten students behind a a circle of strobe lights. The lights are set to flash in a persons eyes who stands in the center of circle. I call number that on the stobe light and one person at random enters and engages. The lights, the music have a disorienting effect. The guy in the center has 2 minutes to submit or KO their attacker and after that they have two people to face at the same time. If a person is old enough and drinks and has a way home, I sometimes let them drink a few beers (2 or 3) and hop in.
This actually a form of reflex & awareness conditioning, your contous mind gets a sensory overload and you become confused and distarcted. That forces you awareness to focus and you to control the fight or flight response. Its akin to the old "game of stones" or "What was your attacker wearing games" used by MI goons...
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Not really, the ability for your opponent to tap is what makes it safe. Most people's egos are what get them in trouble. If you incorporate striking into it, you still have the ability to tap but you also have to trust your partner to know if you have been rendered unable to do so.
My question is more rhetorical....looking for a flaw....
I hear ya. The late Carlson Gracie and most of his immediate disciples (Mario Sperry, the head of Brazilian Top Tea most notably) used to always reply to the question "How do you open someone's guard?" with "Open him up with strikes". This holds true for any grappling situation. If you watch the old Royce Gracie fights they usually went like this:
1. Front kick the guy to gauge distance and distract.
2. Shoot.
3. Strike to distract.
4. Takedown.
5. Use strikes to establish mount.
6. Strike until opponent rolls over.
7. Choke or strike until choke is open.
Not surprising actually. Royce has a lot of experience is plenty of arts. He probably wouldn't have faired as well with out his knowledge of strikes.
Styles: Currently: BJJ, JKD, Judo. Past: Krav Maga, Kickboxing, Haganah, Tang Soo Do
Posts: 359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurama-freak
Biting, yep thats right
When your grappling in alot of moves your opponent is open to bite you, while in sparring this is not aloud in self defense on the streets what you going to do?
Not saying the style is completely useless just saying i have found a major downside to alot of the grappling moves.
While you are striking it leaves your opponent open to pull a pistol and shoot you. Not saying the the style is completely useless.....
Not surprising actually. Royce has a lot of experience is plenty of arts. He probably wouldn't have faired as well with out his knowledge of strikes.
No, he didn't then. Not in his early days. He has since started more cross training but in the early days he was pure water GJJ! Trust me, the whole concept was to close the distance off the front kick or time the shoot off the right cross. This is how it's still taught in a lot of schools.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
No, he didn't then. Not in his early days. He has since started more cross training but in the early days he was pure water GJJ! Trust me, the whole concept was to close the distance off the front kick or time the shoot off the right cross. This is how it's still taught in a lot of schools.
Ah, I had the cause and effect wrong... I figured it was something like:
1. Royce had training in a few styles.
2. Royce wins using certain tactics to aid his primary goal of submissions.
3. GJJ starts getting taught they way he did it and so starts to include techniques that otherwise belong to other arts.
Even if he didn't have proper training, I think he and his style still (at the very least) benefited from exposure to other styles.
Ah, I had the cause and effect wrong... I figured it was something like:
1. Royce had training in a few styles.
2. Royce wins using certain tactics to aid his primary goal of submissions.
3. GJJ starts getting taught they way he did it and so starts to include techniques that otherwise belong to other arts.
Even if he didn't have proper training, I think he and his style still (at the very least) benefited from exposure to other styles.
Oh absolutely! One of the things that really allowed the Gracie an edge in these scenarios is that they had been taking on all challengers in Brazil for decades. They had been doing No Rules fights with just about every known form of Martial Arts out there, this is what allowed them to hone a specific strategy for each "style".
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Oh absolutely! One of the things that really allowed the Gracie an edge in these scenarios is that they had been taking on all challengers in Brazil for decades. They had been doing No Rules fights with just about every known form of Martial Arts out there, this is what allowed them to hone a specific strategy for each "style".
Ah... another tradition which seems to continue to this day. And here I thought it was just a slightly macho advertising tactic.
A flaw with Jiu Jitsu and grappling based arts
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