Straw through wood, but paper??

[Jozen-Bo]

After thinking about this more since I opened the thread I figured why not Google. Yes, paper can cut through wood when it it rotating about 2000 RPM, though what I found was that it cut through a pencil, not too impressive but still a cut. A pencil is dry wood, much softer and easier to cut then fresh wood. The paper can probably cut through larger pieces, but it would cut slower until the pieces are so big it fails. It wouldn't take forever giving the speed is fast enough.

If the RPM is fast enough it can cut even better, the physics at this point are obvious...give the machine a RPM of 4000...6000...10,000...eventually the paper will tear from centrifugal force but it can handle quite some speed before doing so. Giving it is spinning fast enough it can even cut through softer metals like graphite and the faster it spins the cleaner the cut.

What I want to know is if a person can use a piece to cut wood, thus this doesn't fully answer my question. I'll start with a pencil and see how far I can get.

Here is the link I found while digging a bit:

How To Cut Wood With Paper

[Basho]

Master Shin claims he saw a monk as a child that kicked a tree and made a single leaf fall each time. I don't know what to think of that.

Random fact: there are several records of prisoners escaping by cutting through the bars with floss. There was a documentary (i believe on discovery) on a methamphetamine addict that did it in under month.

[Chapel]

Just speeding it up is not going to help. At some point you have to worry about the hardness of the paper. For instance, no matter how fast I spin a sharp piece of glass, I am never going to put a scratch into a diamond. Rather the glass would get worn down.

In the link, they were using some heavy duty paper in a highly specialized circumstance to cut the wood. It is highly doubtful that you could repeat that feat by hand with printer paper.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Just speeding it up is not going to help. At some point you have to worry about the hardness of the paper. For instance, no matter how fast I spin a sharp piece of glass, I am never going to put a scratch into a diamond. Rather the glass would get worn down.

In the link, they were using some heavy duty paper in a highly specialized circumstance to cut the wood. It is highly doubtful that you could repeat that feat by hand with printer paper.

...or repeat it consistantly by hand. Let's come out and speak truely, whatever the reason, the claim is false.

[Gambatte Karate]

I cut myself with paper once. It hurt.....REALLY bad....for a day or so....So I have no doubt that the paper CAN cut through a tree. I mean, if it hurt THAT bad, it HAS to be SHARP! Also, how thick is the paper? And what is it made of? And how is it made? And then? AND THEN? AND THEN??????

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

...or repeat it consistantly by hand. Let's come out and speak truely, whatever the reason, the claim is false.

Well, when the paper wasn't held steady, it wouldn't bite in the same place and so it wouldn't cut through. Less cutting time, more surface to cut.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Well, when the paper wasn't held steady, it wouldn't bite in the same place and so it wouldn't cut through. Less cutting time, more surface to cut.

Yeah, I understand. All I'm saying is it is obvious to a person capable of analytical thinking that this claim is false. Let's stop wasting space on a dead issue.

[Jozen-Bo]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Just speeding it up is not going to help. At some point you have to worry about the hardness of the paper. For instance, no matter how fast I spin a sharp piece of glass, I am never going to put a scratch into a diamond. Rather the glass would get worn down.

In the link, they were using some heavy duty paper in a highly specialized circumstance to cut the wood. It is highly doubtful that you could repeat that feat by hand with printer paper.

Speeding it up will help according to the physics involved. If you spin a piece of glass at it's maximum RPM rate before it melts from air friction or shatters from centrifugal force, which depends on its shape and size, given that the size accommodates an RPM of 30,000+ and the radius adds to circumference speed of the sheer edge, glass will cut through Diamond.

Basically the power of impact is speed times weight, and this is divided by the surface area of the two colliding things, be it fist, sword, or whatever. This is elementary physics. Giving enough speed, impact power will overcome any hardness. A diamond is hard, but not indestructible.

[Jozen-Bo]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Yeah, I understand. All I'm saying is it is obvious to a person capable of analytical thinking that this claim is false. Let's stop wasting space on a dead issue.

That is what people said about the those crazy Wright brothers..."anyone capable of analytical thinking can tell it is impossible to make a ship fly". They were ridiculed, but not discouraged. Today airports are huge multi billion dollar businesses and we've sent people to the moon.

I love physics, part of what makes this interesting is considering the physics of when it becomes possible. While it might not be possible for a human, it might if they can move the paper fast enough as a slicing edge.

Now I am wondering how fast did that spinning contraption go at the edge of it's circumference and how long did it take. Giving the radius is not much then the speed isn't much either. I'll shoot for an approximation later, it shouldn't be hard to determine.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Jozen-Bo

That is what people said about the those crazy Wright brothers..."anyone capable of analytical thinking can tell it is impossible to make a ship fly". They were ridiculed, but not discouraged. Today airports are huge multi billion dollar businesses and we've sent people to the moon.

I love physics, part of what makes this interesting is considering the physics of when it becomes possible. While it might not be possible for a human, it might if they can move the paper fast enough as a slicing edge.

Now I am wondering how fast did that spinning contraption go at the edge of it's circumference and how long did it take. Giving the radius is not much then the speed isn't much either. I'll shoot for an approximation later, it shouldn't be hard to determine.

Jozen, you truly test one's patience. The statement was that of a human being slicing wood with a piece of paper. No matter the reason the claim was made, it was false and cannot be supported or recreated. As for everyone saying the Wright Bros ideas were crazy, not even close. Many people were working on powered (and non-powered) flight at the same time the Wright Bros were. Finally, no one gives a damn that you feel you are some kind of scientist and can figure out the physics of something that is impossible.

Seriously, stop posting stuff you know is idiotic crap just so you can post in your psuedo-scientist/tough guy voice. Its not that no one is buying it anymore, as much as no one cares. Welcome to my ignore list. You should feel special considering your only the second person ever to irritate me enough to get on the list.

[Jozen-Bo]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Jozen, you truly test one's patience. The statement was that of a human being slicing wood with a piece of paper. No matter the reason the claim was made, it was false and cannot be supported or recreated. As for everyone saying the Wright Bros ideas were crazy, not even close. Many people were working on powered (and non-powered) flight at the same time the Wright Bros were. Finally, no one gives a damn that you feel you are some kind of scientist and can figure out the physics of something that is impossible.

Seriously, stop posting stuff you know is idiotic crap just so you can post in your psuedo-scientist/tough guy voice. Its not that no one is buying it anymore, as much as no one cares. Welcome to my ignore list. You should feel special considering your only the second person ever to irritate me enough to get on the list.

That isn't what I learned when I had to learn about the Wright brothers, should I dig....hmmmm....



I almost forgot that your always right! Oops...my bad.

I get the impression myself that only when everyone agrees at least 90% of the time with some of the members here (not all of them...)are they OK...which is absurd! You've attempted to analysis me what...over 50 times now and only one time being accurate, when you said I write my replies too long. The rest is just an idea for sell that some people have bought, and so they say...since there is 5 or 6 of us we must be right...



I don't mind you putting me on your ignore list, I wish Joeshmomata, TRI, and two others I can think of would do the same. I give it to you that your mature enough to do this instead of crying ban (bravo...I applause thee for this). Then again you probably won't read this. So or so...I am hoping the digressors who can't distinguish one topic from another when it comes to me, because they are distorted with contempt, will all simply ignore me and leave my threads along, so that the threads aren't disrupted.

We don't all HAVE to like each other here...do we... And I am not trying to be everyone's friend or mister popular, I don't care to be frank (there are some people I do enjoy talking with a lot, just to make this clear).

[damen]

the problem, Jozen-Bo, is that your posts try to sound scientific and intelligent... but they ignore ACTUAL SCIENCE. It is extremely frustrating. For instance, the only way for this paper cutting wood thing to work is through friction, not actual cutting, and it would go through a LOT of paper to make it happen (as friction does work both ways). glass spun to high rpm's WONT cut diamond, regardless of what you say, because it will shatter before it can spin fast enough to accomplish the job. I suppose you could reinforce the glass somehow to accomplish your goal, but then it wouldnt really be glass anymore - the same with the paper.

I LOVE people with creative ideas. I love people who want to try to do "the impossible" - because many things ARENT impossible, we just havent found the right way to do it yet. But that only works when they arent violating the basic laws of physics. Some things really are impossible, no matter how hard you believe otherwise.

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

Can we ban him for not using multi-quote?

[Jozen-Bo]

Originally Posted by damen

the problem, Jozen-Bo, is ...

I LOVE people with creative ideas. ...

...no matter how hard you believe otherwise.

Sorry, I thought it would be funny to break up your comment like this...a little light humor...hehehe...

Anyways what you wrote is there so there isn't any real confusing it. I am not trying to sound intelligent if that is what you think, I am merely expressing my ideas and opinions, just like you. I like to think about the science involved, and I am sure I am not always right or wrong when I do. In this case, I remain uncertain, you might be right on with your analysis.

I'm not a physicist, and I'm guessing your not either. I took courses, you probably did too. I think I'll do this, I'll assume another user name (for the first time ever), go to a physics forums and see if I can get an actual physicists to give a statement. I am curious what they'd say. I think that sounds fair enough. If they say impossible I'll drop it, though I'll still play with the break the pencil with paper idea for fun...because fun is fun!!



And to Tryandguard...I mean trianglefromguard, I am sure you made another ban request. This is sorta like a fighter who can't stop throwing left jabs, even though his opponent caught on a long time ago and is blocking or out maneuvering them each time. Am I right...is it another left jab.... That can be your new mantra, put your hands together and chant out loud each day "Can we ban Jo-Bo for this, can we ban Jo-Bo for that" over and over, I'm sure you'll have some sort of profound experience if you do...


I'm off to find a physics forum, one that is active so I can get a fast answer! I'll report back here what I find!

[damen]

You're right, I'm not a professional physicist. Physics and engineering are, however, hobbies of mine. I've built gauss rifles, HERF guns, and many other fun items. I have a pretty damn good grasp of physics and engineering. So please, listen to me when I say this:

unaltered paper wont (within the spirit of the challenge) do what you want it to do (I say within the spirit of the challenge because, as I said before, with infinite time and paper you could cut through pretty much anything simply via friction).

unaltered glass wont cut diamond (again, with similar caveats to the above).