Judo vs. Jiu jitsu

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Akai Shizuku

I was merely changing my mind. Is that a crime?

I'm just guessing here but I think you are well under your legal limit of mind changes per day. So its cool with me. I'll have to check with Kenpodog though, just to be sure.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Spinach

Ben. Full respect to you, but do you know what the charges are for taking out someones eye or rupturing their testicles? There is real self defense and there is fantasy self defence. Since you're english lets say you are down at the local nightclub(Since every english martial artist seems to spend their time at nighclubs and dangerous pubs) and someone gets annoyed for some reason and attacks you. You use the nasty bits and take him down, buised throat, ruptured eyes, half of his left ear is hanging off, snapped a finger. He didn't know when to lie down and kept coming back for more. You leave the club. Good self defence. Next day the police are knocking on your door wanting a word with you. Now you have a record. Now your spending time in a lockup. Now you are wondering whats gonna happen next. Maybe it wasn't such great self defence after all. Real self defence is putting someone down without severly damaging them. The nasty bits were great for ninjas and samurai but these days they will do you more harm then good if you use them on someone.

fair point. Although I should point out I dont go for all the nasty bits straight way, if someone put a hold on you you attack nasty bits to weaken them, then perform a throw or lock. Depending on the danger of the situation you apply more or less nasty bits.

Also you don't get charged if someone attacks you. By law if your in a confrontational situation and you make it clear that you do not want them near you and they proceed to come within arms length and make their aggression known then you are allowed to defend yourself.

But for the sake of your argument. Lets assume they guy is a big one, doesnt know when to stop and I dont have a great deal of control so end up using my nasty array of moves.

Fair enough I may get charged, cautioned, fined, perhapes a short setence. But on the other hand I defended myself from possibly a lot worse, and that guy wont be attacking me or anyone else for a while. True the judo practitioner may be able to control the situation in a much better and less violent way, But it would be unfair to say ''jujitsu is too violent for street defense, we should switch it with judo''

[Spinach]

I dig what your saying. I actually think they are both great arts. I am just standing up for all the people I know who do judo, who can and do kick ass with it. Personally I think the style is irrelevent. It is totally up to the individual martial artist. However, the live training style of Judo and the like can forge a martial artist in a such a way that they can easily adapt to people attacking them for real, and styles that practice more theory and rehersed technique rely more on personal talent to translate those skills to the street. In the right hands however, they are both deadly. I just thought it was all very unfair what everyone was saying and wanted to even the score. I have noticed a trend everywhere for Jujutsu practitioners to look down on a Judokas ability to defend themselves.

As for the theoretical confrontation we have been talking about. For sure, its a fair point. But, a slightly drunk angry person can often be less affected by the nasty bits, which inherently seem to be for inflicting pain. A person might keep getting up cause they just aren't feeling the pain like they normally would. However a rattled brain will put anyone to sleep, regardless of their pain threshhold. In that situation it would be more responsible to take advantage of their reduced reactions to punch them in the sweet spot and put them out. Or just throw them down and leave or put a sleeper on. It would be irresponsible to keep performing techniques aren't affecting them but will potentially cause damage for the rest of their lives, much more so then a hold or punch to the face would. Also I am somewhat versed in english laws. I know that in self defense you have alot more freedom but there are still limits. I personally wouldn't be inclined to push them.

Just my thoughts.

[Ben]

well said. I understand now. +rep

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Ben

well said. I understand now. +rep

Thanks for making me think about it so much, I feel like I understand it better now too. Isn't intelligent discussion great??

[N.B]

I think Judo is a great art too. I just thought what I thought because all my Jitsu experience has involved schools which place high emphasis on resisting ukes and real-life appilications.
I'm surprised to learn that this isn't the standard all over.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by N.B

I think Judo is a great art too. I just thought what I thought because all my Jitsu experience has involved schools which place high emphasis on resisting ukes and real-life appilications.
I'm surprised to learn that this isn't the standard all over.

when you practise without resistace it gives you time to learn techniques in detail, granted it may be harder to apply them on the street but you will apply them successfully because you know the technique very well, this is why weakening your opponent with nasty strikes is such an importanat part of jujitsu because it gets rid of thier resistance. What your aiming to do in jujutsu is be playing with a corpse after the first couple of techniques

[JackG]

after reading through I have drawn these arguments up - Trying to be non biased - not really a problem because I wish to train in judo aswell as JJ and I regularly train with judo guys who are very good.
We all know Jiu-Jitsu has more nasty bits and stand up locks and throws are taught as too keep you up right which make alot better at dealing with knives and weaponry( you never want to be on the ground with a knife) , It also has multiples .
On the other side of things Judo people are constantly going against a resisting opponent ( this happens in some jitsu clubs such as my own but not in all clubs) so you can say they would be better at throwing someone when they want to rather than Jitsu people who throw when they can - thats why jitsu throws are taught from many different angels compared to judo throws which are all taught from a Judo grip.
Although Judo people may be better at throwing resisting opponents ( ofc depending on club and student) I believe that because Jitsu people train a wider set of situations ,defences and angles they would be more effective for a self defence situations on the street.
In my opinion ofc

[super ninja]

I know im gettin into this latr but i think jiu jitsu is better for mma and self defence just because some of the locks are so sore and easy to put on.

[TKDaddict]

jiu jitsu locks are deisgined to maime. as a law abiding person you cant go aroung breaking muggers wrists or taking out their eyes. so im going to say judo as you put someone to the ground and that is the end of it. police forces and armys use it. so it muct be somewhat useful.

[super ninja]

I know that but you can put them in enough pain so they are not longer a threat.

[TKDaddict]

judo will do that aswell. a drunk or drugged person will not have the same pain threshold as me or you. and you can be sure they wont tap out. so how do you know when to stop?

[Spinach]

Well said TKDaddict.

And more to the point, if I did want to be nastier I don't need to learn jujutsu to know that putting my fingers in an attackers eyes will hurt them.

[Shirindo]

I am also coming into this late, apologies.

I am a practitioner of Ju-Jutsu, I have worked as a doorman in a club where there were no communication between the doorstaff. (I mean ear-pieces) so you were basically on your own. I have had to deal with a number of situations where, mostly, people were inebriated to some degree.

I have never need to use the nasty bits as the control and restraint element of JJ was more than enough. This has been the case even against guys a lot bigger than me. Saying that, the nasty bits were there and would have been used should I have needed them. I am proud of the fact that I never even threw a punch in my time on the door.

I am also lucky that in my class we train against both compliant and extremely resisting opponents. Yes, to the point of being shattered and winning with whatever technique you could pull off.

I have nothing against Judo what-so-ever, I think its a fantastic style and understand why people would choose it as a style. In certain situations it would be the better style, but in others I would prefer the JJ as it leaves me something in reserve.

[Akai Shizuku]

Originally Posted by Shirindo

I am also coming into this late, apologies.

I am a practitioner of Ju-Jutsu, I have worked as a doorman in a club where there were no communication between the doorstaff. (I mean ear-pieces) so you were basically on your own. I have had to deal with a number of situations where, mostly, people were inebriated to some degree.

I have never need to use the nasty bits as the control and restraint element of JJ was more than enough. This has been the case even against guys a lot bigger than me. Saying that, the nasty bits were there and would have been used should I have needed them. I am proud of the fact that I never even threw a punch in my time on the door.

I am also lucky that in my class we train against both compliant and extremely resisting opponents. Yes, to the point of being shattered and winning with whatever technique you could pull off.

I have nothing against Judo what-so-ever, I think its a fantastic style and understand why people would choose it as a style. In certain situations it would be the better style, but in others I would prefer the JJ as it leaves me something in reserve.

I agree. When I got into my dojo I expected to be taught solely Shotokan karate, as it was the only art advertised. At the same time, however, my sensei were teaching students the arts of bojutsu, kickboxing, and a mix of judo and ju-jitsu. I'm very glad for the vast reserve of techniques I'm learning...Some of them feel like a secret weapon used in an emergency (particularly the deadly strikes). Although I will never gouge an enemy's eye out (I've learned much more useful moves), the greater arsenal of techniques in ju-jitsu can be very, very useful.