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Hi
I`ve been to a couple of judo classes recently, which i have enjoyed. So far though all the training has been rehearsed learning/practice of throws and breakfalls, with no randori/rolling training against resisting partners. Does beginners judo training tend to start out like this (learning throwing techniques in a co-operative way before moving on to competitive stuff)? or does this sound like a counter productive method?
I practice jujitsu, which is similar in practise to judo.
although it does ultimately depend on the sensai, my experience seems that jujutsu emphasizes practicing without large amounts of resistance, This is because of the focus on technique which ultimately defeats power, power comes through basic training at home but technque can be developed in the dojo.
Practicing without resistance is extremely good for your technique, and as a result you wont need as much power to execute a good throw .
On the other hand, judo is also a competition sport, and eventually you will find yourself in a position of having to fight a resisting opponent, if not in a competition it will occur in the dojo as it seems judo also practices grappling with resistance.
If you get frustrated with no resistance training despite its benefits then I suggest you ask your partnenr to resist a little so you can experience this for yourself.
You dont know the teqnique. Your partner is resisting and not letting you attempt the technique. How will you ever learn it?
Like ben I practice jitsu and we learn all our tecqniques from punches/kicks ect using the attackers own momentumm against them. That doesnt mean on the odd occasion we do some randori I cant do anything.
Throught compliant training I learn the techniques.
By being attacked in training I learn to apply them against an attackers motion.
In randori I learn how to create that motion needed for a perticular technique.
I hope that make sence.
__________________
Incoming punches have right of way.
In the Judo and Jujitsu training I have encountered you start (begin) a new technique with a "rehearsed" format.. as you begin to learn the technique better you add speed, then resistance. Most Judo beginners learn their basic falls/rolls/throws then move on to basic grappling.. It might be a while before you get to truly see your hard work in a "resisted" match, but it will be well worth it, when you do
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In the Judo and Jujitsu training I have encountered you start (begin) a new technique with a "rehearsed" format.. as you begin to learn the technique better you add speed, then resistance. Most Judo beginners learn their basic falls/rolls/throws then move on to basic grappling.. It might be a while before you get to truly see your hard work in a "resisted" match, but it will be well worth it, when you do
Great post.....
I totaly agree.....
One cannot determine by a few beginning moves and/or exercises, the outcome of the complete study.
Practicing without resistance is extremely good for your technique, and as a result you wont need as much power to execute a good throw .
I agree in that it is good for your technique. You are able to practice the technique slower with more precision and more reps. More reps = muscle memory.
But I completely disagree in that "as a result you wont need much power..." Your technique might be good but until you are grabbing a resisting opponents arm you'll never know what it is like. What good is your technique if they rip their arm right our of your grip? Or what if they counter your throw and end up throwing you? Until you can get the "feel" for their weight, center of gravity, and such (with a resisting opponent) your technique is incomplete.
Reality - My school (BJJ) starts us out learning technique and basics (break falls, rolls, etc) and then after a few classes you get to actually roll.
I've studied both jujitsu and judo and in each different style we started by learning how to properly fall and roll without injury before moving on to more technical throws and counters with a resisting opponent. MartialMan is right that you can't judge the totality of this training on just a few of the initial sessions. Give your instructor a chance to prove or disprove the worth of his training.
__________________ "An eye for an eye only blinds the world." - Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
"Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa
I've studied both jujitsu and judo and in each different style we started by learning how to properly fall and roll without injury before moving on to more technical throws and counters with a resisting opponent. MartialMan is right that you can't judge the totality of this training on just a few of the initial sessions. Give your instructor a chance to prove or disprove the worth of his training.
I think it is a matter of impatience and distraction.
Hi,
Its rare to go straight into sparring(randori) or training with a resisting partner straight away. In most judo classes you will go through rolls breakfalls and basic groundwork. When you got this to a good standard you will most likely spar but on the ground, starting from your knees, and armlocks and chokes wont be allowed so you objective will be to get a good holddown. After you get used to getting thrown through practice, you will start standing randori then combine it with your groundwork. Good luck my man!!
__________________ Marks markstraining.com - Fighting and Training Methods for the Unarmed Martial Artist
I agree in that it is good for your technique. You are able to practice the technique slower with more precision and more reps. More reps = muscle memory.
But I completely disagree in that "as a result you wont need much power..." Your technique might be good but until you are grabbing a resisting opponents arm you'll never know what it is like. What good is your technique if they rip their arm right our of your grip? Or what if they counter your throw and end up throwing you? Until you can get the "feel" for their weight, center of gravity, and such (with a resisting opponent) your technique is incomplete.
Reality - My school (BJJ) starts us out learning technique and basics (break falls, rolls, etc) and then after a few classes you get to actually roll.
Let me rephrase.
more technique in many occasions means that that you need less power to get the same result, for example I execute a technique with huge amounts of power but little technique it might work but if I execute it with the same power and better technique the damage done to my opponent will be far greater.
more technique in many occasions means that that you need less power to get the same result, for example I execute a technique with huge amounts of power but little technique it might work but if I execute it with the same power and better technique the damage done to my opponent will be far greater.
Once you learn the break-falls then you will learn the throws, then the holds like kesagatame (scarf-hold) and katagatame these types of holds that don't really do damage just control your opponent. Then you will learn submission holds, chokes and arm bars. You will learn counters. It is like a game of chess. Then you will be ready to do ronduri. Believe me judo is not the gentle -way. Once a trained judoka gets his hands on you he will turn you every which way but loose. Be prepared to fight until total exhaustion. It is a rougher sport then most people realize. My Sempai caught me in a guillotine choke (hadaka jime) and I tapped out right away because he snapped it on and tilted his hips back very fast. I thought he broke my wind pipe. Take your time, learn the basics and give it a chance. Once you get in close you rule.
Thanks,
Sensei Tom
Last edited by Sensei Tom OBrien; 10-17-2007 at 06:59 PM.
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