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Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 4,510
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As a kung fu guy I do both striking and grappling. Grappling is WAY more effecient in controlling a person without injuring them. In striking you are hitting someone hard enough to effect them or you are not. If you are hitting them hard enough to effect them then more than likely they will suffer injury, even if it is just a bruise. If you aren't hitting them hard enough to effect them then you are wasting your time striking and you put yourself in danger. While you are messing around lightly tapping them you are exerting no control over them. Meanwhile they are more than likely going to go full force against you. That does not sound smart to me and believing you can control an angry person by showing you have greater skill striking does not sound realistic at all.
I can't believe that with as much experience as some of the members of this forum have that this is even a debatable issue.
Styles: Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Karate, Aikido, Judo, Tae Kwon Do
Posts: 1,430
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I'm not arguing that striking can control an opponent while causing NO injury at all, but you can certainly minimize it hugely
bruises arent injuries as far as I'm concerned, as an example
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 4,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damen
I'm not arguing that striking can control an opponent while causing NO injury at all, but you can certainly minimize it hugely
bruises arent injuries as far as I'm concerned, as an example
I'm saying the minimum that is going to happen is a bruise. Either you hit someone hard enough to effect them or you do not, there is no middle ground. Trying to find a middle ground while in the middle of a fight is foolhardy.
Styles: Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Karate, Aikido, Judo, Tae Kwon Do
Posts: 1,430
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I'm afraid I'm just going to have to disagree with you on this point
my personal experience disagrees with your personal experience, and thats very hard to get past for anyone
1. All I ever hear from strikers on why grappling is no good for street fights is because of all the damage that can be inflicted without rules which is completely contradictory to what is now being said.
The striker arguments I've put forth have never been about how much damage strikers can do vs damage grapplers can do. Rather that going to ground is not something I would do in a SD situation because it reduces my mobility and thus slows possible escape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
2. The idea that throwing punches or kicks of any kind is going to inflict LESS damage to an opponent than taking them down and controlling them on the grouns is absurd. Obviously the risk of damage to the opponent goes up with strikes being thrown. There's really no logical argument against this notion.
Depends on how you're taking the opponent down. A lower skilled Judo exponent can easily make a mistake and land their opponent on the neck or head. Even a high skilled Judo exponent could seriously injure their opponent due to any number of factors (hard surface, uncoordinated opponent or a target that is much heavier than they're used to).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
I'm saying the minimum that is going to happen is a bruise. Either you hit someone hard enough to effect them or you do not, there is no middle ground. Trying to find a middle ground while in the middle of a fight is foolhardy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damen
I'm afraid I'm just going to have to disagree with you on this point
my personal experience disagrees with your personal experience, and thats very hard to get past for anyone
It depends on what you consider a fight or SD situation to be. My personal experiences with SD agree with WC_Lun. As in I'm going to put my attacker down as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Literally laughed out loud.
How about this one, Jason the only place you're throwing a shirtless dude is on your bed! ZING!!
Of course Judo can be used as SD.
What's up with guys teasing Jason. The young man is just at an age when he's exploring his "intimacy" options. Just look at the poster he has on his bedroom wall (this photo is one Jason posted up on the forum awhile back in another thread).
What you consider "damage" and what your opponent, the police, his lawyer, and the courts may consider "damage" may be completley different.
Crusading Soul,
I have said over and over on this forum, don't make the mistake in thinking that a BJJ doesn't want to punch you. We just wait until we've gotten where we want before doing it:
We wait until we've achieved mount.
Then you have no chance to escape other than give up your back.
The positions in BJJ are given points based on their effectiveness in real fight. Back mount and mount are both worth 4 points.
Guard? No points.
__________________ And who knows, he might could tap me. BUT I have enough confidence in my game to say he can't.
- Jade Dragon
Styles: Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Karate, Aikido, Judo, Tae Kwon Do
Posts: 1,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
Damen,
What you consider "damage" and what your opponent, the police, his lawyer, and the courts may consider "damage" may be completley different.
Crusading Soul,
I have said over and over on this forum, don't make the mistake in thinking that a BJJ doesn't want to punch you. We just wait until we've gotten where we want before doing it:
We wait until we've achieved mount.
Then you have no chance to escape other than give up your back.
The positions in BJJ are given points based on their effectiveness in real fight. Back mount and mount are both worth 4 points.
Styles: Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Karate, Aikido, Judo, Tae Kwon Do
Posts: 1,430
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lol well if you really want I can try to explain "stunners" but then you'd just say how in a real SD situation you arent gonna risk something like that, and blah blah blah
wouldnt accomplish anything and your points are completely valid
I am simply arguing from the position of my own experience and what I, personally, found to be effective.
That said, I've also learned over the years that what is effective for me has nothing at all to do with what is effective for other people, lol. When we have these discussions, however, I tend to forget that and argue from my own position (oddly enough, not a problem I have usually.. just here on the boards lol)
The positions in BJJ are given points based on their effectiveness in real fight. Back mount and mount are both worth 4 points.
and these are some of the worst positions you can ever be in for any type of confrontation because you are helpless. when someone has you in mount, especially when you are new to grappling or have no grappling experience, there is no way out...that is until you learn mount escapes which take a lot of practice. and from mount the bjj could punch you or do 20 other things. the whole point is that bjj teaches you to control the person and get into good positions to dominate them.
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