American Kenpo: Dance of Death

[kenpodog]

Here is an American Kenpo technique called:
Dance of Death
Mr. Ryder gives an excellent demonstration and explanation

[Knives Mackie]

Thats a pretty awesome counter

[TreacherousThrive]

Nice vid, upload more if you can.

[souldrum71]

Very detailed explanation of technique. I don't know about the 'dance' but I can certainly understand the 'death' part of the title.

[ladyfighter]

Thanks for the video, kenpodog, it was very informative and useful.

[Draven]

Very nice vid... Now I know two forms called the dance of death

[Unkotare]

The problem with these demo-type things (well, ONE problem) is that they rely on the uke to either do nothing ("Oh, thou hath defeated me!") and just lay there while the other guy brings in a Mariachi band to play while he does the Mexican hat dance around his prone body, OR they require the uke to do such minutely specific things ("No, no, when you sloooowly throw a punch you have to step here and and keep your arm there and your wrist like this and only throw an exaggerrated straight right, then next you have to...") that it becomes completely unrealistic.

Of course they're just for training purposes, but I wonder how many impressionable young folks out there see stuff like that and expect that that is exactly how it would play out in an actual fight/contest?

[Draven]

Allot of them I supose... But I also know alloy of "aldults" who would believe that as well. All in the the prinicples are sound.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Thanks Kenpo,

Very interesting intercept methods used.

[sirdarksol]

Originally Posted by Unkotare

The problem with these demo-type things (well, ONE problem) is that they rely on the uke to either do nothing ("Oh, thou hath defeated me!") and just lay there while the other guy brings in a Mariachi band to play while he does the Mexican hat dance around his prone body, OR they require the uke to do such minutely specific things ("No, no, when you sloooowly throw a punch you have to step here and and keep your arm there and your wrist like this and only throw an exaggerrated straight right, then next you have to...") that it becomes completely unrealistic.

Of course they're just for training purposes, but I wonder how many impressionable young folks out there see stuff like that and expect that that is exactly how it would play out in an actual fight/contest?

You start out slow and you make minute adjustments at first, but once you get better at the skills, the precision of the attacker's movements becomes less important as the response becomes automatic, leaving the defender with more of his mental resources available to make up for differences in the attack.

I agree, though, that a good number of people think that in one session of working on a particular maneuver, they have mastered it to the point that it will be useful on the street.
My karate class deals with this by holding goshin jitsu drills every night. We pick a different two maneuvers to practice. Newer students may be learning them for the first time, but older students are learning how to really use them. We also have unplanned attacks, where the attackers pick random grapple attacks and the defender has to respond to them as quickly as possible.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Ah, I love Randori.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by sirdarksol

You start out slow and you make minute adjustments at first, but once you get better at the skills, the precision of the attacker's movements becomes less important as the response becomes automatic, leaving the defender with more of his mental resources available to make up for differences in the attack.

Generally speaking, I approach the same concept by telling students in invent 2 man forms, no more then 3 to 5 techniques, in a 1 to 3 time span. We practice allot of symtaneous movements, attacks and defenses...

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by kenpodog

Here is an American Kenpo technique called:
Dance of Death
Mr. Ryder gives an excellent demonstration and explanation

Nice, but not "new".

[N.B]

Funny this, I was about to start a thread on Kenpo but I think I'll use this one instead. I met a fellow recently who has joined up at my tang soo do group. He used to do Kenpo for a number of years, while having a chat with him in the student bar afterwards he was telling me a bit about it, and some of his favourite counters:

"So he goes to punch you, you step here, block his punch, pull his arm forward, kick his knee here so it breaks, step like this so his falls over like this, do a eagle claw to his eyes so he is blinded, do a palm strike to his nose so it breaks, you're still holding his arm so twist it like this and he'll roll over like this..."

and now my favourite part...

"do a stomp kick here, then wrench the arm like this and it'll break here, wrench it over your knee here and it'll break again and do a strike here and it'll break for the third time, and if you kick this part of the arm while pulling the hand, his arm will now come off"

Me: "Come off???!!!"

Him: "Yep"

Me: "Then you get arrested"

Him: "No, you would use anything like that in the street"

What I don't get is; what is the point of learning it at all? Surely after you've poked him in the eyes the guy is going to be pretty defenseless. Also, how can you justify pulling somebodies arm off? Maybe this does all work but it sounded a bit Ashida Kim to me.
Not taking a dig at Kenpo here because I'm sure different intructors teach different things.

[Draven]

Well oddly enough Kenpo is connected with Koga Ryu Ninjitsu in many ways. Seiko Fujita last reconized grandmaster (Soke) of Koga Ryu Ninjutsu was also a Soke in Kenpo-jutsu & Shuriken-jutsu. He defined his Ninjutsu fighting art as simply Jujutsu.
Jame Metsoe (Sp?) in Hawaii was the first to teach kenpo-jujutsu a mix of Kenpo-jutsu & Jujutsu. He taught William Chow who was Ed Parker's Sensei & has claimed to have incorperated some of Fujita's ninjutsu system into his art. Don Dreager did an essay on it I think?