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*Yawn* Look TMA people I know that it stings when someone says XYZ art sucks and you study that art. You keep saying that you can't judge the whole based on the inequities of a few MC Dojo's but, yes you can and perhaps by now the McDojo's out number the true TMA bad ass places. You have no one to blame but, yourselves for this current state of affairs.
If you have ever belted or attended a school that belted a child as a black belt and did not immediately go WTF and leave, it is YOUR fault. If you have ever attended a seminar and some one walked you though focusing your internal energy as a form of defense and attack and, you did not immediately go WTF and leave. it is YOUR fault. How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even take yourself seriously?????
Listen we have all said that the manner in which you train is the most important thing and not the art but, 90% of your brethren are training like ding dongs DO SOMETHING TO AFFECT CHANGE OTHER THEN SAYING XYZ art kicks ass or blah blah in the street or my techniques are so lethal I can't use them.
As far as some of the particulars, MT was not brought up as a complete or excellent art for grappling, it was said to have proven itself as a more effective striking art which it has. As far as plenty of MMA guys using TMA striking there is only one who does so successfully on a pro level and that is Machida. GSP I know some of you will bring him up but most if not all of his striking is MT including his spinning back kick.
I know most of you guys train hard and take your training very seriously but, use yourself as an example of your dedication not as an example of an art that has taken a turn for the worse. That's just my opinion, you can tell me to F off or whatever, we're still cool
Really ? When I think of derivatives I'm thinking recently i.e judo and aikido from Jitsu , aren't both those korean arts quite old , I'm happy to be proven wrong but IMO like judo and aikido they are arts in there own right.
Gen Choi was a student of Funakoshi's while attending college in Japan, when he took Tae Kyon (I think I spelled this correctly), and other korean martial arts systems with Shotokan to form modern TKD. In fact many TKD forms are modified forms from Karate. And remember Funakoshi and Kano had worked togather giving demostrations at each other's schools.
Unlike Shotokan which got its start from a school teacher the founder of modern TKD Gen Choi was teaching TKD as a hand-to-hand system during Japans invasion of Korea. The heavy focus on kicks and especially jump kicks is not due to being used against riders on house back (it was an ambush method of Tae Kyon however). Gen Choi taught the Korean soldiers to use kicks to keep the Japanese soldiers at a distance while fighting close, Karate trained Japanese soldiers favored hand techniques and close range fighting. Also because much of korea is mountains Korean infantry soldiers are required by their environment to have good balance and strong legs, which again favored using the strongest natural weapon (the legs).
Both military TKD taught to the ROK Army and Ancient TKD resemble MT a great deal for geting in close and blasting with knees and elbows. Modern TKD as a sport favors Shotokan in methodology but as a military science is quite different; more explosive and taught at all ranges. Of course to learn that you'd have to join the ROK Army or ROK Marines...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
you can tell me to F off or whatever, we're still cool
F-off LOL
The problem that you have presented is quite true. However, for me, as an individual, to simply walk out on 12-13 years of training simply because my instructor has promoted 16 y/o kids to BB, is not really feasable. It would mean completely starting all over, and loosing out on the meat and potatoes so to speak. It is cutting off one's nose to spite their face. A larger problem is that there are so many different systems out there. It is difficult to determine what is what. And almost all of them claim to be "the best" one out there. I have even seen certain schools here in Tampa teaching "beginners BJJ". Want an example? Here you go Pinellas Fitness and Martial Arts - Home Oh yeah, I love the 10 or 11 y/o BB's in the front page pics too with this one. LOL So it is happening already. There is no governmental regulation of the martial arts, and as such, it can (and will) run amok.
The problem that you have presented is quite true. However, for me, as an individual, to simply walk out on 12-13 years of training simply because my instructor has promoted 16 y/o kids to BB, is not really feasable. It would mean completely starting all over, and loosing out on the meat and potatoes so to speak. It is cutting off one's nose to spite their face. A larger problem is that there are so many different systems out there. It is difficult to determine what is what. And almost all of them claim to be "the best" one out there. I have even seen certain schools here in Tampa teaching "beginners BJJ". Want an example? Here you go Pinellas Fitness and Martial Arts - Home Oh yeah, I love the 10 or 11 y/o BB's in the front page pics too with this one. LOL So it is happening already. There is no governmental regulation of the martial arts, and as such, it can (and will) run amok.
It says right on the web page they teach TKD. Hence kid BB's, click on the BJJ tab, no kids. BJJ practitioners as a whole would not accept something like a kid with a BB. You can't even be a blue belt until the age of 16. Any sort of this kind of behavior in the BJJ worl would result in dojo storming.
And as far as the other I would gladly rather get my meat and potatoes from somewhere else then give up my integrity for them.
Yes, but, how is it that a purple belt is teaching classes? This simply does not happen in any of the schools in my system, and should not happen elsewhere IMO.
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 4,510
Home Country:
F off, Triangle! I'm not saying that because of your post, which I actually think is fairly acurate, but just because I can
You have people training martial arts for different reasons than fighting, but many people can't even be honest enough to admitt it. If all the people who say they train for self defense were in fact training for self defense, a lot of these McDojos would be closed because they would not be supplying what people wanted.
Gambatte, the one thing I will disagree with you about is starting over after so many years. While you are happy with your system, if you weren't then the number of years you trained in that system should have nothing to do with trying to find better. It doesn't make sense to keep doing something you know is inadequate. That is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Again, you are happy with your system so I'm not referring to you specifically.
Too many people in martial arts are blind to what they are doing. They want to believe that this guy or that guy is the greatest grandmaster or this or that style is the ultimate. When things happen that show things differently, they ignore them because it doesn't fit into how they want to view things. Because of this, among other issues, you have martial artist that really have no idea of what it means to fight for real or experience martial arts as more than a form of excercise or ego stroking.
BTW, Triangle, this is a quote form their website:
Quote:
Benjamin eventually moved his Team in with David Vieira and the DVBJJ Academy. It was here that Benjamin began to earn rank in BJJ and he helped to build the MMA program at DVBJJ. He was also the Head Instructor of the Kids BJJ Program and was an Asst. Instructor for the adult classes as well.
I'm now confused.
Lun, I agree with your post. It makes sense. Seeing as I am happy with my system, it would not make sense for me to switch completely. However, I DO see where it is lacking, and am currently trying to add to it. As my martial arts forefathers have done before me.
I think the following several pages represent why I just up and stopped training one day. Sure I had outside excuses (wife just had a baby, busy at work, blah blah blah) but I think this really nails it right on the head. I am tired of watching "Black Belts that cannot even do 1 push-up correctly, or even try to do so. I was ready for my Black belt test and just lost interest. I never felt I was worthy of the rank I had received to that point and Black belt was always something sacred to me. I am over-weight and not in the best physical shape but yet they were ready to promote me to black belt? To represent the school? That just blows my mind! This topic has helpped me better understand what feelings I have been supressing for quite some time now. Thanks to everyone for their input.
I still train at home with my 9-year old, but it is mainly for exercise and fun. I continue to have a passion for the martial arts and will continue to self-study until I can find the right place to train.
*Yawn* Look TMA people I know that it stings when someone says XYZ art sucks and you study that art. You keep saying that you can't judge the whole based on the inequities of a few MC Dojo's but, yes you can and perhaps by now the McDojo's out number the true TMA bad ass places. You have no one to blame but, yourselves for this current state of affairs.
If you have ever belted or attended a school that belted a child as a black belt and did not immediately go WTF and leave, it is YOUR fault. If you have ever attended a seminar and some one walked you though focusing your internal energy as a form of defense and attack and, you did not immediately go WTF and leave. it is YOUR fault. How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even take yourself seriously?????
Triangle, allow me point something out to you. I (or anyone else) CAN OPERATE A BJJ MCDOJO & NO ONE CAN STOP ME...
Thats how/why TMA got screwed except HRD because their grandmaster patient the style as a brandname. There are where BJJ McDojos in Brazil, seen it myself on video when a friend of mine attended a BJJ camp and the guy teaching had a fake ass lineage.
The BBB can't shut down a school because BJJ-BB "ABC" says he trained with the "XZY" in "country of your choosing" and if all he can say is "I'm just teaching what I was taught and what I believe..."
If you call the BBB your harassing me...
If you show up and chalenge me infront of my students, I'll just tell you to come back when I'm not teaching and call the police when you show up or refuse to leave because your threatening me in an attempted shake...
If you beat my ass down, which given the scenario (if i did that) I'd agree with I was viciously assaulted by a criminal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
*Listen we have all said that the manner in which you train is the most important thing and not the art but, 90% of your brethren are training like ding dongs DO SOMETHING TO AFFECT CHANGE OTHER THEN SAYING XYZ art kicks ass or blah blah in the street or my techniques are so lethal I can't use them.
No one has said, my techniques are so lethal I can't use them in the ring/cage whatever. But **** it I will, My techniques will instantly kill you. My art is called Glock 40 with laser sights, you can not stop my infernal death touch of steel core slugs lol
Here is the thing, I teach how I feel is most effective its not the greatest thing, except to me. I don't care what someone does in their house and anyone coming into my house and telling me what to do is gonna get a shot in the face.
Fact is, in some ways BJJ is lacking severely... But, everyone goes to that multiple opponent and weapons crap. Most BJJ schools I've seen ignore the issue but claim street effectiveness (I think of those of the furture McDojo of BJJ, it follows a pattern). Fighting more then one person requires increasing the level of violence in a fight.
Its not a technical thing it a mental conditioning thing, its a tactical awareness thing and a violence of action thing. I'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about, Your in a bar and drunk A and his buddy B starts talking trash. You go to leave and A takes a swing at you. So knowing you gonna face two attackers and have no where to run what do you do? Hope the bouncers get there before the violence reaches a new level? No, you drop A in the fastest way possible (lets say you DLT and ground and pound A). B's now on your back choking you out and pulling you back off A. Solution is to grab and lock A's elbow and use B's energy when you kick up to the standing position and break A's arm. A's out the fight and you pull a reversal on B and drop him to the floor.
In that scenario you disabled A's ability to fight (broken arm) and simply reversed on B. Is it possible in BJJ, yes and most other MAs do to. Do you train for it? no. Do you condition the "killer instinct?" no. But can you? Yes... Can Karate fighters raise the level of violence against multiple attackers? Yes. The fact is we all agree; when faced with multiple opponents option one is to run, option two is to raise the level of violence to that when their buddies start dropping or screaming in pain like little girls the motivation of the group get taken down a notch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
*As far as some of the particulars, MT was not brought up as a complete or excellent art for grappling, it was said to have proven itself as a more effective striking art which it has. As far as plenty of MMA guys using TMA striking there is only one who does so successfully on a pro level and that is Machida. GSP I know some of you will bring him up but most if not all of his striking is MT including his spinning back kick.
How is this spinning back kick any different then TKD? MT was a sport and is a sport its based of various Muay (boxing) system and got its root in kung-fu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
*I know most of you guys train hard and take your training very seriously but, use yourself as an example of your dedication not as an example of an art that has taken a turn for the worse. That's just my opinion, you can tell me to F off or whatever, we're still cool
F-off... You said I could...
Actually I think you're right on that little part, but remember that can be applied to BJJ as well. Infact to quote Rener Gracie "My father* has said that BJJ is more focused on sport fighting and has lost much of its combative skills for self-defense" If thats correct then you could find yourself seeing more BJJ-McDojos in the future and when that happens I'll remind you about this post
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
It says right on the web page they teach TKD. Hence kid BB's, click on the BJJ tab, no kids. BJJ practitioners as a whole would not accept something like a kid with a BB. You can't even be a blue belt until the age of 16. Any sort of this kind of behavior in the BJJ worl would result in dojo storming.
And as far as the other I would gladly rather get my meat and potatoes from somewhere else then give up my integrity for them.
Is Dojo storming like a massive mob of Brazilians with Viking hats running in and doing flying armbars and upside down kimuras?
__________________ "People can take physical pain, people can take mental anguish, but cardio pain crushes eveeeerybody." - Frank Mir
Well...The devil's getting cold right about now. LOL I'm going to agree wtih Draven on something. LOL J/K Draven
Anyway, The number of attackers DOES detirmine the level of violence to an extent. Thats the reason why I have trained in CDT (low level), Karate (mid level), and PSP (high level). Now, I'm sure you're wondering what the heck "PSP" is. It was developed by my instructor and is called Positive Self Protection. It is mainly stand up, was developed from our parent system. It is very violent and involves breaking bones and kicking out knees and hyper-extension of elbows etc. and moving on to the next person. LOL So, I agree with Draven to an extent.
Well...The devil's getting cold right about now. LOL I'm going to agree wtih Draven on something. LOL J/K Draven
Anyway, The number of attackers DOES detirmine the level of violence to an extent. Thats the reason why I have trained in CDT (low level), Karate (mid level), and PSP (high level). Now, I'm sure you're wondering what the heck "PSP" is. It was developed by my instructor and is called Positive Self Protection. It is mainly stand up, was developed from our parent system. It is very violent and involves breaking bones and kicking out knees and hyper-extension of elbows etc. and moving on to the next person. LOL So, I agree with Draven to an extent.
Well technically we've agreed on raising the level of violence when you mention shooting the guy with a knife in another thread
Level of violence is a key to surviving an attack. You don't want to use a bazooka to swat a fly, or couse you don't want to use a fly swatter on a tank either...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
BTW, Triangle, this is a quote form their website: I'm now confused.
Kids do bjj. They have different belt levels, something like yellow, orange, green, or something like that. However, they still cant get their blue until 16. Black at 18.
O, purple belt usually mean 5+ years of training, which in some arts might be grand master. All level bjj belts can teach except white. Most beginner classes are taught by blue belts. to get your first belt, blue usually takes around 1-3 years depending on your athletic ability and prior experience. my coach is a brown belt.
__________________
Gracie Challenge: "If you want to get your face beaten and well smashed, your a$$ kicked, and your arms broken, Contact Carlos Gracie at this address..."
Not all McDojos are McDojos. Let me explain. As long as you understand what you are getting for your money, then the McDojo can be worth it - even a great deal. My son was very shy when we enrolled in TKD. The DoJang is run by some great people that worked with him closely to help him get over his shyness and fear of speaking out. The constant improvement and rewards really worked for him and for that I am greatful. He can keep from being bullied at school now and has learned ALOT about being in public places and what to do when a stranger approaches and grabs him. So I wouldn't say the McDojos are a waste of time or money - it's all what you expect to get out of it. I must admit, I've gotten alot out of it as well.
Why Karate?
Really ? When I think of derivatives I'm thinking recently i.e judo and aikido from Jitsu , aren't both those korean arts quite old , I'm happy to be proven wrong but 
LOL 
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