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I have many problems with kartate and its related branches (TKD, TSD, Kempo, etc.). Maybe there's something I'm missing. I sincerely want to understand why people still are passionate about this system.
1. Its failure as stand up in MMA compared to Muy Thai.
2. Its unrealistic training, i.e. marching doing blocks and chambered punches far too slow to do even during sparring.
3. No real grappling, when grappling has been proved to be so essential to fighting.
4. Black belt factories: people getting balck belts in 2 years that are kids or have big beer bellies (it's ridiculous).
5. Wasting time on forms/ kata. It has very little value if any, but maybe others think it is very helpful... why?
even though kempo may a branch of karate shao-lin kempo has everything in it, strikes, grappling, weapon defense techniques, etc., etc.
but it is a very well rounded art and in my school, you can't get a black belt until the master (an eighth degree bb with forty years of training in my case) thinks your ready to take on a full grown man
I have many problems with kartate and its related branches (TKD, TSD, Kempo, etc.). Maybe there's something I'm missing. I sincerely want to understand why people still are passionate about this system.
1. Its failure as stand up in MMA compared to Muy Thai.
2. Its unrealistic training, i.e. marching doing blocks and chambered punches far too slow to do even during sparring.
3. No real grappling, when grappling has been proved to be so essential to fighting.
4. Black belt factories: people getting balck belts in 2 years that are kids or have big beer bellies (it's ridiculous).
5. Wasting time on forms/ kata. It has very little value if any, but maybe others think it is very helpful... why?
Thank you for answering these points...
This is more a TMA vs MMA argument....which no one will ever win no matter how many people are put into the cage.
As others will argue: MMA is a sport, their arts are for real self defense. Also MMA is for one person, not multiple and not about weapons.
Also, its not really about the art, more or less, rather the way you train. Most MMA schools do live fighting, most TMAs do not, so you are more likely to really be prepared for a fight in MMA.
I believe MMA is better than all of the TMAs for real fighting, not because of the arts but because in mma you are going to train to fight, practice fighting, and only learn and use what actually works. There is no BS training. Plus you will get in better shape. You will not waste time. Also, the majority of people in mma are athletic and tough, so you are going to be practicing with some hard individuals, which is good in my opinion.
Other people do martial arts for various reasons. and remember MMA is not training for street self defense, however I would guess that most mma students would fare much better than TMA students in street situations.
I believe a lot of the stuff learned in most TMA Schools is a joke. However there are TMA schools out there not teaching the crap stuff. Too bad a majority are, giving those few schools a bad rep. overall, it depends what your goals are. if you want to really learn to fight, you are probably better off at a mma school than tkd school.
While I believe mma is the best for fighting, I only do bjj. I am trying to get a good base on the ground and at least to blue belt level in bjj. at that point I will reevaluate and see if i want to start mma or a stand up art like boxing or MT. However, I never see myself actually competing in MMA. I do plan to compete in bjj though. MMA is a bit to extreme for me injury wise.
__________________
Gracie Challenge: "If you want to get your face beaten and well smashed, your a$$ kicked, and your arms broken, Contact Carlos Gracie at this address..."
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,932
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I'm sorry you had bad experiences in TMA, but seriously?! Do you really think all TMA schools are like the ones you describe above? Are you really that ignorant or are you just being a troll? Yes, there are loads of craptastic schools out there who don't train realistically and as a result couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag. However, your comments are generalizations, show a great lack of understanding of martial arts, and an ignorance of where MMA came from. Let me put it another way for you, STYLE MEANS NOTHING. Its how you train, the understanding of the instructor and his/her ability to pass that information on, and again, how you train. Keep trying, fanboy.
What you call TMA (John) is what I've already stated is a Sport based off TMAs, those sport systems are extremely limited by there rules. Sport Judo doesn't teach striking and sport karate doesn't teach grappling. Shotokan origionally had only 15 katas and and noew there are 30+ why? Because kata competitions have become popular. Most of the Grappling techniques heavy in the Okinawan stystems of karate where removed to make sport karate more dramatic.
By that logic BJJ doesn't exist its just judo, it came from judo and therefore its TMA judo. Just because something is derived from something it doesn't make the same thing as what created it...
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
What you call TMA (John) is what I've already stated is a Sport based off TMAs, those sport systems are extremely limited by there rules. Sport Judo doesn't teach striking and sport karate doesn't teach grappling. Shotokan origionally had only 15 katas and and noew there are 30+ why? Because kata competitions have become popular. Most of the Grappling techniques heavy in the Okinawan stystems of karate where removed to make sport karate more dramatic.
By that logic BJJ doesn't exist its just judo, it came from judo and therefore its TMA judo. Just because something is derived from something it doesn't make the same thing as what created it...
I know that you have solid beliefs and good basis for that definition, however, most people do not understand the term to mean that...at least thats what my impression is. Most people describe TMAs as arts that practice katas and may or may not spar but its not really part of rank. This is what most people believe TMA means, whether its technically right or not, its how I use the term.
__________________
Gracie Challenge: "If you want to get your face beaten and well smashed, your a$$ kicked, and your arms broken, Contact Carlos Gracie at this address..."
Styles: mixed martial art style, jeet kune do concepts, currently capoeira and some kick boxing
Posts: 740
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashlock
I want to know why people still take karate.
Because they have confidence in the art, and in their own skills and abilities, regardless of what others say or think. Some of them can back that up...some of them can't. Just as with every other style. That's just my opinion~
I have many problems with kartate and its related branches (TKD, TSD, Kempo, etc.). Maybe there's something I'm missing. I sincerely want to understand why people still are passionate about this system.
1. Its failure as stand up in MMA compared to Muy Thai.
2. Its unrealistic training, i.e. marching doing blocks and chambered punches far too slow to do even during sparring.
3. No real grappling, when grappling has been proved to be so essential to fighting.
4. Black belt factories: people getting balck belts in 2 years that are kids or have big beer bellies (it's ridiculous).
5. Wasting time on forms/ kata. It has very little value if any, but maybe others think it is very helpful... why?
Thank you for answering these points...
1.) You cant compare hardcore Karate to TMA/MMA
2.) Not all Karate is geared toward juveniles and sport.
3.) Per number 1.) Karate does have takedowns and grappling.
4.) Karate forms are just routines that help in balance, breathing, and stamina. Just like any other routine in anything else.
5.) If you had actually studied hardcore-full Karate, you wouldnt make such references.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
I know that you have solid beliefs and good basis for that definition, however, most people do not understand the term to mean that...at least thats what my impression is. Most people describe TMAs as arts that practice katas and may or may not spar but its not really part of rank. This is what most people believe TMA means, whether its technically right or not, its how I use the term.
Shut up no-gi Judo man! Yes, but as WE both know "a rose by anyother name." Just cause you called it a TMA doesn't make it so. Like we (the forum at large) has covered many, many times; the TMA people don't like the psuedo-TMA frauds out there and continuing to refer to psudeo-TMAs as TMAs only helps to confuse the legitimacy of any & possibly all MAs.
In reality GJJ is closer to Kodokan judo then Olymic judo, but I don't either sport judo or BJJ are TMAs.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
Shut up no-gi Judo man! Yes, but as WE both know "a rose by anyother name." Just cause you called it a TMA doesn't make it so. Like we (the forum at large) has covered many, many times; the TMA people don't like the psuedo-TMA frauds out there and continuing to refer to psudeo-TMAs as TMAs only helps to confuse the legitimacy of any & possibly all MAs.
In reality GJJ is closer to Kodokan judo then Olymic judo, but I don't either sport judo or BJJ are TMAs.
So, what is your view of the thread starting statement?
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Why Karate?
Yes, but as WE both know "a rose by anyother name." Just cause you called it a TMA doesn't make it so. Like we (the forum at large) has covered many, many times; the TMA people don't like the psuedo-TMA frauds out there and continuing to refer to psudeo-TMAs as TMAs only helps to confuse the legitimacy of any & possibly all MAs.
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