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Old 10-18-2008, 03:29 PM   #1 (permalink)

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Sen no sen

One of the ways to defend or attack on karate is using Sen no sen, which means "before initiative" or "to take the initiative" - example: TORI "feels" that UKE is going to attack and start his attack first.-, that is a definition that I found for this and the questions is:
How can we feel the attack and how can we make our opponent to don't feel that we will attack?
I know that it might be for eyes and body movements, but how?
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:31 PM   #2 (permalink)

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One of the ways to defend or attack on karate is using Sen no sen, which means "before initiative" or "to take the initiative" - example: TORI "feels" that UKE is going to attack and start his attack first.-, that is a definition that I found for this and the questions is:
How can we feel the attack and how can we make our opponent to don't feel that we will attack?
I know that it might be for eyes and body movements, but how?
Secret ninja mind powers.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:12 PM   #3 (permalink)

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The key to interpreting an enemies attack is perception. A skill that, like all others, must be trained.
As far as hiding things goes, i do not feel i know enough to tell you.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:20 PM   #4 (permalink)

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The key to interpreting an enemies attack is perception. A skill that, like all others, must be trained.
As far as hiding things goes, i do not feel i know enough to tell you.
ok
So does anyone knows how to train that?
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:54 AM   #5 (permalink)

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1-How can we feel the attack and how can we make our opponent to don't feel that we will attack?
2-I know that it might be for eyes and body movements, but how?
It very hard to explain like this, but I can at least discribe training methods. First off, you have to learn to feel your way around people; I have 4 videos on youtube that explains to psychologic aspects of that in layman's terms; just look up street focus jujitsu. Thats a good start but its basiclly a primer and not an absolute. Also even though its a "martial arts thing" its a matter of human interaction theory.

1- Allot of that "feeling" is an instinctive reaction to physical ques and telegraphing; either through interaction, body language or just plain bad technique. (2)For example; allot people become "extra nice" very "stiff" (because they are trying to hide any tells) or lead in with thier face before they intend to attack. Some people become extra loud and aggressive as a way of "pumping up" before they intend to attack. The trick to not be caught up the same way is to avoid telegraphing (really good technique) and being especially contious of your body langage, attitudes and facial expressions.
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Old 10-19-2008, 08:07 AM   #6 (permalink)

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You gain the ability to percieve through spiritual power. In order to gain spiritual power you must first clear your mind and being of all preconceived notions of the way things are. Many times there is a great difference between what we want to believe and what is real. Our mind often tries to protect the observer in us, so instead of learning of things in their isness, we simply learn to stick to conclusions.
To make this simple, I cannot fill your cup unless you first empty it. If you cannot do this, then i would stick to what Draven says. Whenever someone has an intention to do something, they put out a thought impulse.
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:00 AM   #7 (permalink)

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You gain the ability to percieve through spiritual power. In order to gain spiritual power you must first clear your mind and being of all preconceived notions of the way things are. Many times there is a great difference between what we want to believe and what is real. Our mind often tries to protect the observer in us, so instead of learning of things in their isness, we simply learn to stick to conclusions.
To make this simple, I cannot fill your cup unless you first empty it. If you cannot do this, then i would stick to what Draven says. Whenever someone has an intention to do something, they put out a thought impulse.
Personally In a SD situation i have never had time to pop into the lotus position and plug in some whale music before I can defend myself but maybe thats just me -sounds a little far-fetched imo
another good tell is small words before they attack like "I'm gona F@##ing Ko you" this is often a good way to figure out when the first hit is incoming.
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:37 AM   #8 (permalink)

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Thanks
What I need it's to control my body. that's the basic.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:19 AM   #9 (permalink)

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Personally In a SD situation i have never had time to pop into the lotus position and plug in some whale music before I can defend myself but maybe thats just me -sounds a little far-fetched imo
another good tell is small words before they attack like "I'm gona F@##ing Ko you" this is often a good way to figure out when the first hit is incoming.
No lotus position required.
It's only as far fetched as one's conclusions make it really.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:42 AM   #10 (permalink)

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I reckon the best way is just to fight, fight and fight again. It's the experience.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:06 PM   #11 (permalink)

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No lotus position required.
o , then its very practical
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Old 10-19-2008, 02:05 PM   #12 (permalink)

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You gain the ability to percieve through spiritual power. In order to gain spiritual power you must first clear your mind and being of all preconceived notions of the way things are. Many times there is a great difference between what we want to believe and what is real. Our mind often tries to protect the observer in us, so instead of learning of things in their isness, we simply learn to stick to conclusions.
To make this simple, I cannot fill your cup unless you first empty it. If you cannot do this, then i would stick to what Draven says. Whenever someone has an intention to do something, they put out a thought impulse.
There are layers to understanding and while I'm an advocate of using meditation, visualization exercises and breath control exercises. I personally do not believe in psychic, spiritual or mystical powers. I won't argue someone's beliefs but I'll use ninjitsu as a reference; while are legends dating back hundreds of years lay claim to mystical powers and even such claims exist from modern practices of ninjitsu. Dispite the seemingly mystical practices such the afore mentioned mental exercises; students of ninjitsu have always mixed philosophy (psychology) with, strategy, acting and those same mental exercises...

Just as one can argue for spiritual powers the reality is that psychology has its own claims; that knowledge can be expressed by the uncontious mind as instinct or intuition. Whether someone beleives the source is spiritual in nature or based on modern science doesn't matter as much as if it works. For any knowledge to be effective (even down to fighting techniques) it must applied instinctively.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:09 PM   #13 (permalink)

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Thanks
What I need it's to control my body. that's the basic.
In Silat, we trained to be deceptive in order to hide intent. Sometimes you leave an opening even turn away (but keep watching opponant). This either turns the opponant off fighting or makes them attack a false opening. I have read in a few threads that Capoeria does this as well. Interestingly, both styles have cultural dances as part of their syllabus which further enhance one's ability to form false / misldeading impressions with one's body and movement. Study body signals and control your own signals then you will learn how to anticipate attacks and know how to disguise your own intentions.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:49 PM   #14 (permalink)

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For any knowledge to be effective (even down to fighting techniques) it must applied instinctively.
I'm not particularly sure im interpreting this correctly. Think you can explain it in different words?
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:34 PM   #15 (permalink)

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I'm not particularly sure im interpreting this correctly. Think you can explain it in different words?
Knowing something doesn't make it work, you have to know and be able to apply it without having to think it over. You just react, and react based on both knowledge and training. Whether that knowledge is academic such as understanding strategy and human interaction or tactical such as applying the correct technique against a given threat...
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