Praying Mantis Kung Fu (vids)

[Little Dragon 117]

this guy teaches Southern Mantis, tai chi, and QiGong.
here is the site
Grandmaster Henry Sue's Praying Mantis Kung Fu & Tai Chi


I am asking for your all of your opinions on this since i am studying Mantis style (Wah Lum)

i also want to know just how effective it is for actual self defense


BTW, this is a vid of the specific style i am learning
YouTube - Wah Lum Tam Tui Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu

[sirdarksol]

Pretty neat looking. If I ever find myself with time, I may have to seek one of this guy's peers out and train.

[47MartialMan]

Who is he?

[ARCC]

Is this a slapping game??? just kidding

this is a pretty good style because it uses speed and strategy.

[WC_Lun]

These guys have good flow and I like the neck and eye strikes. However, there are some things that I don't like. Understand I am overly critical of kung fu because it is what I do, so take these things with a grain of salt.

Mantis is known for its' chin na. I saw little of that here. While there were some controlling techniques they used only head control, which is low level chin na. Normally a hallmark of mantis is the sudden jerking movments that take an opponent's balance. I saw none of that. It is very noticable once you see it and even Northern Mantis has this in it. While the movements did flow, it was all side to side flow. There was very little direct flow on the opponent's centerline. On the flip side of the same coin, the defense was also almost completley side to side movement, which leaves one wide open to attacks on the centerline. With thier elbows out so often, the side to side defense would not be effective under a determined attack. It also makes it a lot easier to trap thier arms. Thier lower body is mostly static when they strike. They should be moving forward or at least on an angle with thier strikes. However, that is very difficult when the attacks are almost completely side to side as they are.

From what I've seen on these videos, this school would be fair quality, but not excellent. The fighting techniques shown might work, but without the footwork or structure it would be hard pressed against a strong opponent or one who attacked the center. Its what I call a starter kung fu school. It opens the eyes to kung fu, but misses some stuff.

Hope this helps. If you have questions about anything I've said, please let me know.

[Little Dragon 117]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

These guys have good flow and I like the neck and eye strikes. However, there are some things that I don't like. Understand I am overly critical of kung fu because it is what I do, so take these things with a grain of salt.

Mantis is known for its' chin na. I saw little of that here. While there were some controlling techniques they used only head control, which is low level chin na. Normally a hallmark of mantis is the sudden jerking movments that take an opponent's balance. I saw none of that. It is very noticable once you see it and even Northern Mantis has this in it. While the movements did flow, it was all side to side flow. There was very little direct flow on the opponent's centerline. On the flip side of the same coin, the defense was also almost completley side to side movement, which leaves one wide open to attacks on the centerline. With thier elbows out so often, the side to side defense would not be effective under a determined attack. It also makes it a lot easier to trap thier arms. Thier lower body is mostly static when they strike. They should be moving forward or at least on an angle with thier strikes. However, that is very difficult when the attacks are almost completely side to side as they are.

From what I've seen on these videos, this school would be fair quality, but not excellent. The fighting techniques shown might work, but without the footwork or structure it would be hard pressed against a strong opponent or one who attacked the center. Its what I call a starter kung fu school. It opens the eyes to kung fu, but misses some stuff.

Hope this helps. If you have questions about anything I've said, please let me know.

well i appreciate the opinion and it helps, but the thing is i stopped going to my Wah Lum a while back

[souldrum71]

Looks too much like what we used to call 'slap boxing' back in high school.
Seriously, I have zero experience with kung fu, so I can't comprehend those techniques.

[WC_Lun]

Unfortunately, in many ways it is like slap boxing and has about the same martial effectiveness. Some of it has merit, but its pretty obvious these guys don't trade hands with anyone that is really trying to hit them with any power.

[Little Dragon 117]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Unfortunately, in many ways it is like slap boxing and has about the same martial effectiveness. Some of it has merit, but its pretty obvious these guys don't trade hands with anyone that is really trying to hit them with any power.

yup, and thats what i need. I want to be able to feel totally uncomfortable and out of my element so i can learn and get better. not everyone i come across is going to be 150lbs and thin

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Little Dragon 117

yup, and thats what i need. I want to be able to feel totally uncomfortable and out of my element so i can learn and get better. not everyone i come across is going to be 150lbs and thin

That desire is a huge step in the right direction.

[Little Dragon 117]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

That desire is a huge step in the right direction.

hopefully a sign that i am learning as well

[TRIANGLEFROMGAURD]

I'd be weary of a school like this.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

I'd be weary of a school like this.

I didnt know there were degrees in the system. The vid says he is a 9th Degree Master....master of what?

[Them's Fighting Words]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

These guys have good flow and I like the neck and eye strikes. However, there are some things that I don't like. Understand I am overly critical of kung fu because it is what I do, so take these things with a grain of salt.
Mantis is known for its' chin na. I saw little of that here. While there were some controlling techniques they used only head control, which is low level chin na. Normally a hallmark of mantis is the sudden jerking movments that take an opponent's balance. I saw none of that. It is very noticable once you see it and even Northern Mantis has this in it. While the movements did flow, it was all side to side flow. There was very little direct flow on the opponent's centerline. On the flip side of the same coin, the defense was also almost completley side to side movement, which leaves one wide open to attacks on the centerline. With thier elbows out so often, the side to side defense would not be effective under a determined attack. It also makes it a lot easier to trap thier arms. Thier lower body is mostly static when they strike. They should be moving forward or at least on an angle with thier strikes. However, that is very difficult when the attacks are almost completely side to side as they are.
From what I've seen on these videos, this school would be fair quality, but not excellent. The fighting techniques shown might work, but without the footwork or structure it would be hard pressed against a strong opponent or one who attacked the center. Its what I call a starter kung fu school. It opens the eyes to kung fu, but misses some stuff.
Hope this helps. If you have questions about anything I've said, please let me know.

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Unfortunately, in many ways it is like slap boxing and has about the same martial effectiveness. Some of it has merit, but its pretty obvious these guys don't trade hands with anyone that is really trying to hit them with any power.

This guy trains in my home city. I haven't actually trained with him but I have trained with some of his senior students (most of whom have founded thier own schools but still consider him thier over-all sifu). I quite like his style but it lacks the agression I have seen other Tong Long (including that trained by some of his students). Also he attempts to mix his Tong Long with Tai Chi and considering the vastly divergent arm positions it makes his amalgamtion look rather strange. Having said all this however, I have heard of how he manages to dominate much larger opponants (including one of his former students who is 6'4, wieghs 280lbs and regularly destroys bags with his hammer fist strikes). As for his Chin Na, he won't teach it to anyone who hasn't been training for a couple of years so don't expect to see it on the internet.

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

I didnt know there were degrees in the system. The vid says he is a 9th Degree Master....master of what?

He's a ninth degree red-belt in Tong Long. Though I doubt that's going to mean much to you.
On the plus side he is one of the few Kung Fu practitioners whose school stills accepts tradtional challenges.

[knuckleheader]

It looks interesting to me.

I've never been able to train with good a Kung fu

stylist. Saw one fight in a AAU tournament. He was good

and strong. Though he got eliminated. Not good for a

chinese stylist to show up in traditional karate tourney.

I'm sure it has merit. Depends on who's the exponent, as

in any style.