Kenpo vs. Kempo

[Galaktia]

Originally Posted by TKD&JKD

Here is another "Shaolin Kenpo" Instructor

In the video he states that the ears can be ripped off easily, is there any truth to that?

Black Belt Magazine

Wow.... Just well... wow...
I would never learn from him... ever...
No offence to him as a sensei or to those who train with him, but I can't take him seriously.
Did you hear the intro music... it was like a pop video.


I have a few problems with his ear ripping technique as well.

1) If you pull someones ear their head moves towards the pull, thats a natural self preservation instinct... so pulling both ears down means you'd get nutted in the face whether you rip off the ears or not.

2) To rip off the ears you have to pull hard and fast enough and FAR enough to out pace the movement of your opponents head and to tear the flesh... the floor stops your pull short on this technique because your elbows strike the floor as you pull down.

3) You are, as has been said, wasting what is in a fight ALOT of time ripping off ears to what... inflict pain? if you have time to rip the ears off then jam your fingers into the persons eyes, elbow strike the throat and crush the wind pipe, or simply slap the ear and cause damage to the opponents equilibrium by popping the eardrum... All of these are faster and likely more effective.

4) You have both your hands taken up with a single ground fighting technique, at that moment you are left open to punches to the temple, punches to the throat, and all sorts of techniques.





Now as to whether or not the ears can be ripped of, I give you this singular garuntee and I will renounce my blackbelt if prooved wrong... ears CAN be ripped off.

A Sensei in my organisation had 5 stitches on the back of his ear after a 3rd dan grading ((some of you have heard of the situations in those gradings)) when a confused upright, grabbing, punching, elbowing, pushing fest went wrong and his ear got PARTIALLY torn away.

He required 5 stitches to return it too place and looking from the front you can still see his ear is slightly off place.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by TKD&JKD

Here is another "Shaolin Kenpo" Instructor

In the video he states that the ears can be ripped off easily, is there any truth to that?

Black Belt Magazine

Holy crap, it's absolutely criminal that Black Belt magazine would give that guy anytime of day much less "Hall of Fame". Apparently, it takes no knowledge or skill to be in the Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame. There should be laws protecting people from the lies of someone like that guy.

Please, PLEASE stick your arms up anywhere near my face while I'm mounted on you. This will make things WAY easier for me, whether I choose to beat your face until I feel like I'm tired and/or armlock you in one of various ways.

ABSOLUTELY do not listen to the guy in that video, trust me when I say to you that he has no concept of how to defend himself on the ground and shouldn't be teaching martial arts to anyone anywhere.

[TKD&JKD]

Yeah I kind of thought the guy was a no talent azz clown when he's teaching shaolin in a japanese uniform with a japanese belt. He's like a 8th degree? Do degrees exist like that in shaolin?

I being a striker would fight from my back to keep the guy from mounting me. At my school we do defense scenarious from your back as we really want to stand back up.

[WC_Lun]

Having degrees of a sash color just depends upon the school. However, Shaolin IS a Chinese martial art and won't use Japanese terms, concepts, uniforms, footwork, etc.

[Galaktia]

Which is something that really amuses me WC_LUN when you consider alot of the concepts in some japanese arts were taught to them by Chinesse arts, and vice versa to a slightly lesser degree.

Heck in karate we even use Kung Fu Kata, with very little alteration.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by TKD&JKD

I being a striker would fight from my back to keep the guy from mounting me. At my school we do defense scenarious from your back as we really want to stand back up.

Correct, the only thing ANYONE should be worried when mounted is getting out of being mounted regardless of how skilled they are in grappling and submissions.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Galaktia

Which is something that really amuses me WC_LUN when you consider alot of the concepts in some japanese arts were taught to them by Chinesse arts, and vice versa to a slightly lesser degree.

Heck in karate we even use Kung Fu Kata, with very little alteration.

Which karate uses forms from chuan fa with little alteration? The closest I've seen has been Kempo, but even then the form is missing a large amount of what makes chuan fa Chinese martial arts. I'd be extremely interested to see karate using katas that closely resemble thier kung fu counter parts. If you can find video of it, I'd greatly appreciate a link to it.

While it is true that some Japanese arts were heavily influenced by Chinese arts, particularly the Crane system, I don't see a lot of evidence of the opposite being true. Of course I could be mistaken. Could you provide me some examples of Chinese systems being heavily influenced by Japanese systems?

I have a lot of repect for all martial arts; karate, kung fu, whatever. I don't really think it matters where a martial art is from if it addresses specific things in its combat application. However, I find it odd when some instructors claim to be something they are not...such as a certain Kempo system claiming to be Shaolin when thier roots are much more from karate. It strikes me as dishonest and a marketing ploy.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

Which karate uses forms from chuan fa with little alteration? The closest I've seen has been Kempo, but even then the form is missing a large amount of what makes chuan fa Chinese martial arts. I'd be extremely interested to see karate using katas that closely resemble thier kung fu counter parts. If you can find video of it, I'd greatly appreciate a link to it.

While it is true that some Japanese arts were heavily influenced by Chinese arts, particularly the Crane system, I don't see a lot of evidence of the opposite being true. Of course I could be mistaken. Could you provide me some examples of Chinese systems being heavily influenced by Japanese systems?

I have a lot of repect for all martial arts; karate, kung fu, whatever. I don't really think it matters where a martial art is from if it addresses specific things in its combat application. However, I find it odd when some instructors claim to be something they are not...such as a certain Kempo system claiming to be Shaolin when thier roots are much more from karate. It strikes me as dishonest and a marketing ploy.

United Studios of Self Defense, maybe?

[Galaktia]

Chuckles... ok well now all of them have gone out of my mind. I know Sipha, Superempa and Nipaipo all borrow from Kung-fu heavily... But I can't think of a single one that remains un-heavily altered.

see now I've gone and made a fool of myself by exaggerating the links.




My organisation as a whole has a lot of respect for other martial arts, to the point where we invite sensei from other arts to attend our dojos and teach our senior students about their art, and parts of their art.

We also travel to observe practitioners during demonstraitions.

I've never understood the "anti-other arts" mentality some martial artists have.

I once met a Tai-chi instructor that said if I wanted to learn from him, I'd have to give up karate... whats up with that.

[damen]

that is very unusual - especially from a Tai Chi instructor
I'd be wary of him

the only issues I could see are because Karate is so rigid, while Tai Chi is basically the polar opposite (in terms of movement)
but there is NO reason you couldnt do both

[Galaktia]

While we like to lock each movement, karate is alot more fluid that people think. :P

[Joemoplata]

Weird that people actually tell their students to give up training in somethine else. I have never come across that in the BJJ world, in fact MOST people cross train.

[complete]

Many traditional martial arts schools discourage training in other martial arts. I think it has to do with loyalty thing more than cross training.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by complete

Many traditional martial arts schools discourage training in other martial arts. I think it has to do with loyalty thing more than cross training.

Oh trust me, the "loyalty" thing is HUGE in BJJ. If you train at one school, it is sacreligious to even THINK about training at any of the other local schools. If you travel and plan to visit any of the other BJJ in the areas you're going to, you need to check with your instructor to make sure the school is "Okay" with your school. The politics are amazing.

Now, that being said, I could care LESS about any of that nonsense. I have guys that train at my school from many of the other local schools including Capital JJ, Leo Dalla, Fighters Garage, The Lab, and others. But for most of those guys if THEY'RE instructors found out they would be pissed at these guys.

Which is too bad.

But this is because of the competitive nature of the sport. We compete against each other all the time so it makes some sense. But for other arts that don't interfere with that competition potential, we have no issue with at all. The loyalty to the art for BJJ guys is usually home grown, not forced. What I mean is that most guys that train BJJ are loyal to the art on their own, they love it and understand it's effectiveness. We don't need to ask them to stick around, they usually can't get enough.

Not many students leave BJJ to go train something else because it wasn't working or they didn't think it was any good.

[damen]

I would never RECOMMEND that a student cross train in a Japanese striking art (or Korean) and a Chinese striking art. Simply because they differ wildly on a few subjects, and it could cause a lot of trouble and confusion for the student (I should know, I've done it lol).

that said, I would certainly allow the student to do it if they wished - I'd just warn them of the potential difficulties.