Kenpo vs. Kempo

[complete]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

Oh trust me, the "loyalty" thing is HUGE in BJJ. If you train at one school, it is sacreligious to even THINK about training at any of the other local schools. If you travel and plan to visit any of the other BJJ in the areas you're going to, you need to check with your instructor to make sure the school is "Okay" with your school. The politics are amazing.

Now, that being said, I could care LESS about any of that nonsense. I have guys that train at my school from many of the other local schools including Capital JJ, Leo Dalla, Fighters Garage, The Lab, and others. But for most of those guys if THEY'RE instructors found out they would be pissed at these guys.

Which is too bad.

But this is because of the competitive nature of the sport. We compete against each other all the time so it makes some sense. But for other arts that don't interfere with that competition potential, we have no issue with at all. The loyalty to the art for BJJ guys is usually home grown, not forced. What I mean is that most guys that train BJJ are loyal to the art on their own, they love it and understand it's effectiveness. We don't need to ask them to stick around, they usually can't get enough.

Not many students leave BJJ to go train something else because it wasn't working or they didn't think it was any good.

This is another example of different people wanting to get different things out of their martial arts training.

If someone is really into reality based self defense or training to be an MMA fighter, I would not recommend TMA and it's not because I don't think TMA can be effective for those. TMA, as its name suggests is big on tradition, and all that bowing thing and showing respect for higher belt, repeating school oath stuff, are big part of it as much as the physical training. Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Some people really get a kick of it and some people are really turned off by it.

[Chad]

I think there are some pretty well rounded MA's for self defense situations

[WC_Lun]

I won't teach anyone that is training in another system, UNLESS they are very experienced in martial arts. Teaching beginning and intermediate students is hard enough without them handicapping themselves by splitting thier training. Their bodies and minds don't know which way to react, making most of the training time in both arts wasted. Martial artist with experience don't have this issue as much and learning something different is usually just a matter of learning the differences in systems.

I do know instructors that expect the students loyalty only to them and thier system. Personally I think this reason for not allowing other training is silly. When I teach, I do it to help the student and to give them tools to defend themselves and perhaps a different perspective on life. If another instructor can help with that, then more power to them. I encourage students to do seminars with instructors from other styles and schools and compare notes with friends in other styles. I know what I practice can stand up to critical scrutiniy from other martial artist, so my ego isn't going to get bruised that way either. An instructor's number one rule should be to do what is best for the student. Not allowing them constructive experiences with other ways of fighting does not follow that rule.

[Galaktia]

Fair point,

But when I started in my original art, I told myself I would have to train for at least 10 years before I allowed myself to take another art.. just because I thought it would be best to focus on one art and learn it correctly before diversitising.

So as I had 10 years experience and was holding a 1st Kyu are the time I don't think the Tai Chi instructor can complain that I wasn't skilled enough to balance myself between the two arts.



I have never understood sensei who demand loyalty only to their style..
I mean surely they see the weaknesses in their style and realise cross training can help to close up these weaknesses and make it more effective.

Part of our basic education once we reach black belt is a detailed look at our styles weaknesses and our own weaknesses.

My own style is a stand up striking art, we have fast strong strikes, quick attacks, powerful attacks, good upright movement,
BUT we are limited in our grappling and throwing, our grappling tends to be defensives from being grapples involving active close strikes using the Nahate gearing system. Our ground work is also limited, though we work reasonably often on striking from the ground, and from the ground escape rolls and leg takes.

Hense why I am going for the best grappling art within my training range of my home, which is Judo. Although sport oriented it gives valuable advice on upright and ground grappling, and throws.

[Theforgotten]

Kenpo vs. Kempo? From my understanding, they are the same exact thing, just different romanizations. Both are the Japanese word for Chaun Fa or Fist Law. Chinese or Japanese? I would say Japanese for the most part, but there are variations that have Chinese influences, and of course, there is American Kenpo/Kempo.

[TKD&JKD]

Originally Posted by Theforgotten

Kenpo vs. Kempo? From my understanding, they are the same exact thing, just different romanizations. Both are the Japanese word for Chaun Fa or Fist Law. Chinese or Japanese? I would say Japanese for the most part, but there are variations that have Chinese influences, and of course, there is American Kenpo/Kempo.

So Kenpo started mixing arts together a long time before the current cross training craze?

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by Galaktia

Hense why I am going for the best grappling art within my training range of my home, which is Judo. Although sport oriented it gives valuable advice on upright and ground grappling, and throws.

Dude, Judo is excellent especially one that is concentrated on sports competition! This will compliment your game perfectly.

[Galaktia]

Joemplata -- To be honest for my ground work I'd prefer BJJ, or JJ in general.

But Judo is good, it also does some good techniques for keeping your feet, which although is covered in karate, when a Karateke comes up against a Judoka or a thrower or sweeper specialist keeping on the upright is a challange, and a pure Karateka on the floor is at a disadvantage.


At the moment I am only on my entry belt and haven't even graded in Judo yet, although I asked my Judo Sensei to hold back my grading, as I am not really a competing sportsman and want to be there to perfect the throws and grapples, not to dash through the belts for competitions.

[Theforgotten]

Originally Posted by TKD&JKD

So Kenpo started mixing arts together a long time before the current cross training craze?

Yes, but not quite to the extent of the current cross training craze where you have entire styles being mixed together. To be sure, Kenpo/Kempo was a single Japanese style that had many variations to it: Japanese variation, Ryukyu/Okinawan variation, Chinese variation, and of course, American variation. Think of it as the same style, just expressed differently by region.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by Galaktia

Joemplata -- To be honest for my ground work I'd prefer BJJ, or JJ in general.

But Judo is good, it also does some good techniques for keeping your feet, which although is covered in karate, when a Karateke comes up against a Judoka or a thrower or sweeper specialist keeping on the upright is a challange, and a pure Karateka on the floor is at a disadvantage.


At the moment I am only on my entry belt and haven't even graded in Judo yet, although I asked my Judo Sensei to hold back my grading, as I am not really a competing sportsman and want to be there to perfect the throws and grapples, not to dash through the belts for competitions.

Judo and BJJ have the same techniques on the ground for the most part, it's just that the rules of competition are different so they don't tend to concentrate on the ground as much as they do on the throws. But trust me, a good Judoka is extremely tough to deal with on the ground because most likely they will take you down and end up on top. And if a good Judoka passes your guard, not good dude. Not good at all!!

[Galaktia]

Oh I know they are nigh on impossible for me to beat on the ground, when the sensei revealed I was a karate instructor the classes higher students all wanted a go with me.

If they got me on the floor I was done, but if I could stay up I could normaly lay enough hard kicks into their thighs to force them to surrender any grip they could get.



The throws are good, and hopefully the sensei will work a little more ground than tournament strickly requires for me if I ask nicely.

[TKD&JKD]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

Judo and BJJ have the same techniques on the ground for the most part, it's just that the rules of competition are different so they don't tend to concentrate on the ground as much as they do on the throws. But trust me, a good Judoka is extremely tough to deal with on the ground because most likely they will take you down and end up on top. And if a good Judoka passes your guard, not good dude. Not good at all!!

I have a book from Dave Camarillo called Gorilla Jiu-jitsu. He is a Judo BB and a Gjj BB. He uses his grip fighting and throws to take down an opponent and right away transition into a dominant position. The BJJ training he has helps him win the fight when he's on the ground. Judo ground fighting is more about strength and speed and BJJ is more about superior technique.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by TKD&JKD

I have a book from Dave Camarillo called Gorilla Jiu-jitsu. He is a Judo BB and a Gjj BB. He uses his grip fighting and throws to take down an opponent and right away transition into a dominant position. The BJJ training he has helps him win the fight when he's on the ground. Judo ground fighting is more about strength and speed and BJJ is more about superior technique.

The Camarillo brothers, Dan and ~Dave, are some of the best all around grapplers in the world and frequent posters on another forum I moderate. Top notch in just about any area of the grappling game you can think of, and excellent instructors and coaches as well. True American pioneers in the sport, I have been a fan since the beginning!