Fight Quest

[WC_Lun]

I saw the Hapkido and Kali episodes yesterday. The thing I noticed immediately on the Hapkido guys was that they kept breaking thier own balance points. Makes it much easier to throw someone if they are already off balance. The Kali was interesting, but I think they focused the camerawork a bit much on the attribute training instead of the technique/concept training.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

I saw the Hapkido and Kali episodes yesterday. The thing I noticed immediately on the Hapkido guys was that they kept breaking thier own balance points. Makes it much easier to throw someone if they are already off balance. The Kali was interesting, but I think they focused the camerawork a bit much on the attribute training instead of the technique/concept training.

Did anyone see Hapkidoists actually throwing someone other than their practitioners with some of the fancier stuff. Hapkido, like Aikido, has some speculations on the fancy stuff

[TRIANGLEFROMGAURD]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Did anyone see Hapkidoists actually throwing someone other than their practitioners with some of the fancier stuff. Hapkido, like Aikido, has some speculations on the fancy stuff

I wasn't going to say anything but yeah.

[complete]

Future schedule posted here.

Fight Quest - Complete Martial Arts.com

[complete]

I watched the episode with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and have couple of thoughts.

One, very impressed with the type of training they do, pulling the car with their head to strengthen the neck muscle, hour long takedown against several opponents back to back, etc. Also very impressed with the techniques involved to subdue a bigger opponent. Even a girl was able to submit a much bigger and strong guy.

However, I also had "concerns" for its potential weaknesses if not addressed properly. Same way I think striker martial arts could have potential weaknesses if they don't address it. In this case, more of opposite. I noticed that during the Jiu Jitsu match, they were standing almost right next to each other, within a striking distance, but were only concerned about trying to take the opponent down. If this was a real fight, one could easily knock the head of an opponent who's only looking down for a takedown. Again, same could be said of striking art where they are all about kicks and punches and vulnerable to a takedown.

One other minor concern would be that much of the techniques were taught with the Gi on and utilizing the Gi. What would happen if they were to fight someone without Gi? They didn't show any training without one.

All in all, I really enjoy watching Fight Quest as I can see both the positive and potential negative of different styles.

[TKDKevin]

Originally Posted by complete

I watched the episode with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and have couple of thoughts.

One, very impressed with the type of training they do, pulling the car with their head to strengthen the neck muscle, hour long takedown against several opponents back to back, etc. Also very impressed with the techniques involved to subdue a bigger opponent. Even a girl was able to submit a much bigger and strong guy.

However, I also had "concerns" for its potential weaknesses if not addressed properly. Same way I think striker martial arts could have potential weaknesses if they don't address it. In this case, more of opposite. I noticed that during the Jiu Jitsu match, they were standing almost right next to each other, within a striking distance, but were only concerned about trying to take the opponent down. If this was a real fight, one could easily knock the head of an opponent who's only looking down for a takedown. Again, same could be said of striking art where they are all about kicks and punches and vulnerable to a takedown.

One other minor concern would be that much of the techniques were taught with the Gi on and utilizing the Gi. What would happen if they were to fight someone without Gi? They didn't show any training without one.

All in all, I really enjoy watching Fight Quest as I can see both the positive and potential negative of different styles.

I gotta agree with you! But the one Gracie (I don't know one from the other) said BJJ is NOT a striking style, there is NO punches or kicks. I have read in Many forums, that they teach as much in strikes as they do submissions, but Mr. Gracie denounced that thought.

I do like the episodes, but I am sure it is geared toward the non-martial artist.
That's my opinion anyway.

-Kevin

[Sensei Tom OBrien]

I can't wait to see the Krav Mega show. Right now Krav Mega is the hottest reality based fighting art.
Thanks,
Tom

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by complete

I watched the episode with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and have couple of thoughts.

One, very impressed with the type of training they do, pulling the car with their head to strengthen the neck muscle, hour long takedown against several opponents back to back, etc. Also very impressed with the techniques involved to subdue a bigger opponent. Even a girl was able to submit a much bigger and strong guy.

However, I also had "concerns" for its potential weaknesses if not addressed properly. Same way I think striker martial arts could have potential weaknesses if they don't address it. In this case, more of opposite. I noticed that during the Jiu Jitsu match, they were standing almost right next to each other, within a striking distance, but were only concerned about trying to take the opponent down. If this was a real fight, one could easily knock the head of an opponent who's only looking down for a takedown. Again, same could be said of striking art where they are all about kicks and punches and vulnerable to a takedown.

One other minor concern would be that much of the techniques were taught with the Gi on and utilizing the Gi. What would happen if they were to fight someone without Gi? They didn't show any training without one.

All in all, I really enjoy watching Fight Quest as I can see both the positive and potential negative of different styles.

What you guys saw was the sport or competition style of Brazilain Jiu-Jitsu. The points system they used at the end was modified, however. In most BJJ tournaments, points are awarded like this:

Takedown (1 opponent puts another on the ground): 2 points
Sweep (1 opponent puts another on his back from his guard): 2 points
Guard Pass (1 opponent gets past his opponents legs and maintains control for 3 or more seconds): 3 points
Mount(1 opponent sitting on his opponents stomach held for 3 or more seconds): 4 points
Back Mount (1 opponent is on the others back with both legs in the front of his opponent): 4 points

If anyone ALMOST gets any of these positions or ALMOST gets a submission they get an "advantage" point for tie-breaker purposes.

If someone gets tapped the match is over regardless of point difference.

In a Sport BJJ tournament, no striking is allowed of any kind. Slamming an opponent who has you in his guard or in an attempt to get out of a submission will result in disqualification. Stalling may result in a loss of points.

Because the point system works the way it does, the person who scores a takedown starts the match ahead so there is a lot of jockeying for a takedown. Someone pulling guard eliminates this point potential and so many good jiujitsu players will pull guard quickly.

The gi vs no-gi difference has been addressed in another thread so I won't go into the details of the differences between them.

As for it's weaknesses dealing with strikes, you have to understand that we don't claim to have good striking! The mentality of a jiujitsu player is to always look for the takedown to establish a top position where it is easy to dominate with strikes, this is why in competition the mount and back mount get you the most points: They offer the best ratio of striking to defending strikes.

[Joemoplata]

Did you guys notice in the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu episode that this was the only art where in competition they didn't face black belts? For those unfamiliar with the belt system in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu its:

White
Blue
Purple
Brown
Black

You're looking at ON AVERAGE 2 years per belt. This is why it would have been worthless for them to face black belts. They would have been tapped over and over and over.

[complete]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I can fully understand that from sports version, you are looking to score more points and since striking is not allowed, the training emphasis is on the takedown without much regards to defense against strike.

I was only pointing this out because I believe it equally applies to sport version of Tae Kwon Do where you get points for striking with punches and kicks and there are no takedowns. Because of this, the emphasis of the training is not on the takedown defense.

So, when you see a lot of videos of Tae Kwon Do guys not doing so well against the grapplers may be blamed for the fact that their training emphasis was on the point system, and when the rules change and they don't adapt, bad results happen.

[complete]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

Did you guys notice in the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu episode that this was the only art where in competition they didn't face black belts? For those unfamiliar with the belt system in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu its:

White
Blue
Purple
Brown
Black

You're looking at ON AVERAGE 2 years per belt. This is why it would have been worthless for them to face black belts. They would have been tapped over and over and over.

Is it possible to move along the belt system much faster if you are good? I heard BJ Penn earned his blackbelt in BJJ in like 3 years or something. Many have questioned the shortness of his training and thought that his belt was inflated, but I think he proved everybody wrong when he won the Abu Dahbi championship as the first American. (something like that. details may be fuzzy)

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

Did you guys notice in the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu episode that this was the only art where in competition they didn't face black belts? For those unfamiliar with the belt system in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu its:

White
Blue
Purple
Brown
Black

You're looking at ON AVERAGE 2 years per belt. This is why it would have been worthless for them to face black belts. They would have been tapped over and over and over.

Damn you BJJ guys love to tout how long it takes to reach black belt. Big whoopty do! Because it takes you 10 years in your style doesnt mean they are better at BJJ than a TKDist is in TKD at the five year mark.

I wonder how a black belt would do against 2 yellow belts if faced with them at the same time?

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by complete

Is it possible to move along the belt system much faster if you are good? I heard BJ Penn earned his blackbelt in BJJ in like 3 years or something. Many have questioned the shortness of his training and thought that his belt was inflated, but I think he proved everybody wrong when he won the Abu Dahbi championship as the first American. (something like that. details may be fuzzy)

BJ Penn began his training pretty much full time, from what I have heard. He basically was training all day, everyday from the start and did indeed earn his BB as a result very quickly. WHenever you hear the rumors of someone getting their Black Belt very quickly its usually due to circumstances like that.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by drallig9399

Damn you BJJ guys love to tout how long it takes to reach black belt. Big whoopty do! Because it takes you 10 years in your style doesnt mean they are better at BJJ than a TKDist is in TKD at the five year mark.

I wonder how a black belt would do against 2 yellow belts if faced with them at the same time?

Yes, I am saying that a BJJ guy at 10 years is better at BJJ than a TKD guy is at his own sport in 5 years. Yes. That is what I am saying.

Here we go with the multiple opponents theory again...ugh, you TMA guys are so predictable in your arguments.

How would I (I have been doing BJJ for just about 10 years so I will use myself as your example) do against 2 TKD yellow belts? Here is my prediction for your fight:

I would take one down and establish the mount position quickly. From there, I would work him quickly to his stomach to get his back and roll him over. In that 10 seconds time frame I will over up to reduce the amount of strikes I would expect to take from the other guy.

I would choke the first guy into unconsciousness with him facing up and me covered up nearly 100% underneath.

I would then get up and face opponent #2.

Repeat steps.

Fight is over in prolly 1 min, 30 seconds.

[WC_Lun]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

I would take one down and establish the mount position quickly. From there, I would work him quickly to his stomach to get his back and roll him over. In that 10 seconds time frame I will over up to reduce the amount of strikes I would expect to take from the other guy.

I've been forced to fight two attackers at the same time and grappling did play a part in my ability to survive it. Also, counter grappling skills helped. I believe I was also lucky that me actually fighting back suprised them and slowed down thier initial attack somewhat. I think leaving yourself open for strikes from one person is not an efficient means of defense against two people. 10 seconds is a very long time to take unmitigated punishment. I also don't believe going to the ground is the safest thing to do in such a situation. You might be forced to the ground, in which case you'd better know some ground fighting, but purposely going there seems to be putting yourself at a distinct disadvantage until you can get the first guy choked out.