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Muay Thai / KickboxingDiscuss Muay Thai or Kickboxing here
This is the biggest load of bull I've ever read. Muay Thai is not a form of fighting, but only a work out? Muay Thai is not jazzercise. It is a traditional form of basic streetfighting that was invented for unarmed militaristic combat. It is not a work out method like Pilates. No combos? Are you kidding!? You obviously know next to nothing about Muay Thai. Please, if you are that ignorant of the subject, just don't give out your (ill-informed) opinion.
On topic. In my opinion, when broken down to two fighters of equal height, speed, skill, and strength, the Muay Thai fighter will come out on top every time. TKD is a very flamboyant martial art, and those ridiculous spinning kicks would just make the TKD practitioner fall prey to hard roundhouses from the Thai boxer. I don't study TKD, but I have never seen a TKD fighter in a clinch before. Does TKD study how to react, defend, and attack in a clinch? If not, then the TKD fighter would be destroyed by a flurry of knees, elbows, and uppercuts if the Thai boxer got close enough.
I would just like to point out that this is the most hypocritical post I have seen in a while. On the one hand you are saying that a person who knows nothing about MT should not say anything about MT, then in the next paragraph you comment on TKD while openly admitting that you know nothing about TKD. I have no problem with pointing out flaws in others logic, however, make sure that you are without sin if you are casting stones.
It comes down to who can control the distance of the fight better because it always comes down to who can control the distance of the fight better. The TKDist would be comfortable slightly farther away, the MTist would be comfortable slightly closer.
I would just like to point out that this is the most hypocritical post I have seen in a while. On the one hand you are saying that a person who knows nothing about MT should not say anything about MT, then in the next paragraph you comment on TKD while openly admitting that you know nothing about TKD. I have no problem with pointing out flaws in others logic, however, make sure that you are without sin if you are casting stones.
It comes down to who can control the distance of the fight better because it always comes down to who can control the distance of the fight better. The TKDist would be comfortable slightly farther away, the MTist would be comfortable slightly closer.
I amde my statements by asking questions, and then answering my own "what ifs?". Ie. "Does TKD study how to react, defend, and attack in a clinch? If not, then the TKD fighter would be destroyed by a flurry of knees, elbows, and uppercuts if the Thai boxer got close enough." I don't pretend to be an expert on TKD, and I was specifically trying to present myself with that in mind. Also, I don't think that you're statement about distance is entirely true. Muay Thai is great for fighting at a distance. The roundhouse kicks can be devastating to the legs, even at the far end of their reach. Also, the standard Thai Boxing stance makes long jabs easy to pull, and very comfortable.
Like drallig, I believe it is down to the practitioner.
haveing fought the under 18s british TKD champion, I can say that it is not an ineffective martial art, possibly it was due to my lack of skill, but not only did he execute fast powerful kicks of all kinds, he was able to fight me in close, with great success.
obviously I do not have the same skill as an experienced muay tai practitioner. But he was very skillful, I could understand that much.
To say 'mauy tai would win every time' sounds like a bit too much arrogance and not enough understanding
I amde my statements by asking questions, and then answering my own "what ifs?". Ie. "Does TKD study how to react, defend, and attack in a clinch? If not, then the TKD fighter would be destroyed by a flurry of knees, elbows, and uppercuts if the Thai boxer got close enough." I don't pretend to be an expert on TKD, and I was specifically trying to present myself with that in mind. Also, I don't think that you're statement about distance is entirely true. Muay Thai is great for fighting at a distance. The roundhouse kicks can be devastating to the legs, even at the far end of their reach. Also, the standard Thai Boxing stance makes long jabs easy to pull, and very comfortable.
Ok, first... you said TKD is flamboyant. This is negative, insulting and not a question.
Second, I was not counting out MT's ability to fight it out at any range as MT has a whole bunch of techniques to deal with any distance (as does real TKD). My point was that traditional TKD for self-defense will focus more on legs than MT for self-defense. As a result the TKDist would simply have an advantage at kicking range or greater, however a MTist would fare better than a TKDist in the clinch because of the elbow and knee strikes that you mentioned. Punching is right in the middle and I would put it in a too close to call section. Realistically neither the MTist or the TKDist would want to stay at that distance for long. (The ground would probably go to the average MTist, but only because MT has a general culture of cross training where as TKD does not.)
In the end, there are a lot of variables and several million ways we could play out this theoretical fight. But if it was pure TKD vs. pure MT I think the fight would play out something like this:
The MTer keeps advancing towards the TKDer as to get into a clinch and the TKDer keeps backing up to try to stay in kicking distance. Sometimes the TKDer would check the MTer by throwing a kick when the MTer advances. Sometimes the MTer would be able to overcome kicking distance and make it into the clinch and throw several moves. Sometimes the two combatants would end up in punching distance and throw a few jabs back and forth which would quickly degrade to either the TKDer shifting weight back and throwing a front leg kick or the MTer getting in past punching distance to the clinch. Eventually something will connect very solidly pretty much spelling the end for the receiver. The most likely end techniques that I see would either be a knee/elbow from the MTer to the TKDer's head/chest or a side kick/back kick from the TKDer to the MT's face/chest.
This fight, however, does not happen exactly like this because in real life a martial artist gains the added ability to know what the opponent knows, especially in this realm of online chat. As a result someone might realize that there is a severe lack of ground training in this fight (as neither TKD nor MT traditionally excels at ground fighting) and decide to learn a little grappling (thus giving up his "pure TKD" or "pure MT" status) before hand in order to do something unexpected and take the opponent off guard. Time and again I find that theoretically the best strategy is to focus on learning two distances and the ability to control the distance of a fight.
But we can never tell what will happen until it does.
Bumper why dont you have a TKD lesson and then judge it?
Trust me, if there were a decent TKD school around me, I would. I'm completely open to anything I can get my hands on. The only school I have had the opportunity to attend that taught TKD did not impress me in the least, and it seemed to me that the instructor was effectively trying to get his students killed by a mugger on the street. Of course that particular class was not a TKD class, it was his own "self defense" class, however I can only assume that he runs his other classes similarly, and I want no part of that.
I'm curious to know what he was teaching, if you don't mind.
If he was saying that you can knock a gun out of someone's hands with a jumping spinning back closing kick (that is an extreme example, I think) then you did a good job getting out of there.
I'm curious to know what he was teaching, if you don't mind.
If he was saying that you can knock a gun out of someone's hands with a jumping spinning back closing kick (that is an extreme example, I think) then you did a good job getting out of there.
He actually was doing gun defense. Not a jump spinning back kick disarm, but almost as ridiculous. I mean, he had people holding (practice) guns at the back of someone else head, teaching them that they could simply spin around, grab the attackers pistol, and then pry ti straight out of their hands (by simply pulling the thumb) all without getting shot. It may have been possible in his twisted head, but I know that if I had my .45 pointed at someone, they would not have the opportunity to spin around, grab my thumb, and take my gun away without getting some lead.
The grab and the spin have to happen at the same time unlike what he is saying. This actually can work but you have to know exactly what you are going to do and then do it exactly.
I've done it with a paintball gun at point blank while I was wearing a chest protector, but then again, the gun was pointed at my chest. At point blank guns will fail to someone who doesn't panic and knows what to do.
The grab and the spin have to happen at the same time unlike what he is saying. This actually can work but you have to know exactly what you are going to do and then do it exactly.
I've done it with a paintball gun at point blank while I was wearing a chest protector, but then again, the gun was pointed at my chest. At point blank guns will fail to someone who doesn't panic and knows what to do.
His technique actually left out a sidestep, so when performed you didn't even move away from the firearm. You kept yourself directly in front of him the entire time. It was all broken down slowly. With a gun disarm, especially from the back, you have to avoid the muzzle, gain control of the firearm. then in that position, if you're lucky enough not to have been shot by now, you would try to remove the weapon from the opponent. If that wasn't possible you would position the firearm at the shooter.
It was almost scary in there, with all these people. Grown men, young children, and women, all doing this disarm and every time they did that spin to look their opponent in the eyes i could hear the *BANG*. Towards the end I was shocked again when they were trying to pry the guns from the opponents grip. they would grab the thumb on the underside of the hand, and the the opponent would practically give the gun away. I sincerely pray that none of those students gets mugged at gunpoint.
Styles: American Jiu Jitsu, Jeet Kune Do, Kendo/Fencing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumper
This is the biggest load of bull I've ever read. Muay Thai is not a form of fighting, but only a work out? Muay Thai is not jazzercise. It is a traditional form of basic streetfighting that was invented for unarmed militaristic combat. It is not a work out method like Pilates. No combos? Are you kidding!? You obviously know next to nothing about Muay Thai. Please, if you are that ignorant of the subject, just don't give out your (ill-informed) opinion.
On topic. In my opinion, when broken down to two fighters of equal height, speed, skill, and strength, the Muay Thai fighter will come out on top every time. TKD is a very flamboyant martial art, and those ridiculous spinning kicks would just make the TKD practitioner fall prey to hard roundhouses from the Thai boxer. I don't study TKD, but I have never seen a TKD fighter in a clinch before. Does TKD study how to react, defend, and attack in a clinch? If not, then the TKD fighter would be destroyed by a flurry of knees, elbows, and uppercuts if the Thai boxer got close enough.
No my friend, you are the one who is ill-informed, you are obviously offended by my post because you take muay thai and made up random gibberish. Obviously you have no comprehension of TKD or MMA. In MMA Knees, elbows,and uppercuts would be of no use. It's true on the street MT would be useful but in a tournament it has no use whatsoever.
No my friend, you are the one who is ill-informed, you are obviously offended by my post because you take muay thai and made up random gibberish. Obviously you have no comprehension of TKD or MMA. In MMA Knees, elbows,and uppercuts would be of no use. It's true on the street MT would be useful but in a tournament it has no use whatsoever.
I think you just killed your argument there, bud. Elbows knees, and uppercuts are of no use in MMA? Maybe it's just me, but when I watch MMA I see lots of knees, elbows, and uppercuts. Also, I still don't see you justifying how Muay Thai is "just a workout, and not a form of fighting." I'm not trying to start a flame war, but some on. In both of your posts you've made two equally absurd statements.
Muay Thai vs. TKD
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