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Muay Thai / KickboxingDiscuss Muay Thai or Kickboxing here
OK, you are taking this REALLY seriously. Are you on the martial arts naming squad or something? I get what you're saying, I'm no expert here or anything. Let's call it Muay Thai as practised in Brazil, how's that? People like to label things, it helps communicate to other people meaning. If you say "Muay Thai", for instance, a particular style of fighting comes to most people's mind. In order to convey the proper or intended meaning, it often helps to be more specific if necessary. It IS semantics, you are just a little bit overzealous. Those who prefer strict Thai boxing will read "Brazilian Muay Thai" and know right away that it's not for them. Those who don't like the rigidity associated with a lot of traditional schools, conversely, will read it and think, "perhaps THIS style is for me." I think this is what people are intending to do when the speak about "Brazilian Muay Thai".
So Jiu-Jitsu is originally from Japan, and is now very famously practised in Brazil, so much so that there is a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Pardon me, but it seems rather arbitrary to base the addition of a nationality to a practice solely on level of popularity. I mean, when do you decide it's well-known enough to warrant it? Wow, this is totally beating a dead horse, ok, I will just have to refer to the one as Muay Thai as practised by Brazilians until you let me know
No, it's not semantics. There is no Brazilian Muay Thai. There IS Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. If there are schools in Brazil training Muay Thai differently then fine, but it's not Muay Thai.
Welcome to the McDojo-ing of Muay Thai. Glad you all were here to see it happen.
Sure, what do you think about Chute Boxe gym? They are known as the new agressive muay thai style. Have you seen their history? The MMA has more than 50 years of history in Brazil, not only on jiu jitsu but also on muay thai.
No it is not muay thai? Please, the fact that brazilians could improve the sport doesn't mean it is not for real. Experienced fighters please advise me: why GSP would go train in Brazil? To learn nothing but jiu jitsu? In some contries MMA is not even permited or recognized as a sport! Sounds familiar?
Hehe I didn't even come up with it! I think the person is Brazilian lol
I think, just as someone who doesn't really like kickboxing, or at least as it's practised in Canada, there's a negative connotation that goes along with kickboxing, especially to practitioners of Muay Thai. It's just not as interesting! No clinch, knees, kicking below the waist, etc. But I would just call in Muay Thai and be done with it myself. I never realized people would take such offence to it! It's totally normal to do that here! But we have a number of Brazilians around so a distinction is necessary I guess.
Styles: mixed martial art style, jeet kune do concepts, currently capoeira and some kick boxing
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Originally Posted by muaythaiforlife
I have a question though for you boys, having not done BJJ myself, what IS the difference b/w BJJ and Jiu-Jitsu?
Well, for starters, in the begining was jujitsu...but then it was modified and became something completely different under some one who was Brazilian. Jujitsu the japanese way is mainly a standing art. Brazilian Jujitsu is not. But they would never call it Japanese Jujitsu from brazil...just like you can't say Brazilian Muay Thai. The "Thai" means from Thailand. You would have to call it Muay Brazil, or give it a completely diferent name all together, as someone hinted...Brazilian Kickboxing. Kickboxing is a general term which you can put any name with, just as jujitsu is a general term which you can put any name with. But there is no playing around with the "Thai" in Muay Thai...that is...as long as Thai is attached to it. It would have to be something different. I think that's the main problem here. Although I'm no athority on martial arts politics
LOL I bet "yoursupremacy" didn't bargain for all of this when they wrote that! Yeah, I looked up BJJ and, well, JJ. Apparently the Japanese guy who brought "JJ" to Brazil wasn't a practitioner of JJ at all, but rather Judo, or some variant therof. And they called it BJJ for some odd reason. I have trained under an Ajahn and a Brazilian fighter, and all the techniques are the same, they are simply employed differently. I would just call it Muay Thai, and let the chips fall as they may. No one in North America can really do it Thai style anyways, that's for the Thais, they move their own way, it's awe-inspiring, and really fricken hard to imitate, which is all any of US doing Muay Thai can do anyways
In Ontario, the kickboxing league - CASK - has low kick, full-contact, and Muay Thai. In the former two, the roundhouse is different than in the latter - not nearly as much rotation, no so much of a slicing action. Also, full-contact doesn't have low kicks, and neither have knees or clinch. SO when you call it kickboxing, it really does mean something different. That's why I'd stick with Muay Thai.
There are actually a couple of threads in the grappling section that deal with the history of BJJ. BJJ for the most part comes from Judo, the term judo and jujutsu were really interchangeable in the 1930's and 40's. BJJ however took these concepts added and changed things in them creating an entirely new art where ground fighting was the primary focus. So to say that both arts are the same and the name was just changed to reflect that Brazilians were doing Judo is entirely false, in fact Judo is still a widely practiced and separate art in Brazil. Joe's instructor is both a black belt in BJJ and a black belt in Judo(sorry Joe I don't remember what degree I think 3rd). And even in BJJ there are variations from school to school I myself come from the Carlson Gracie lineage which is very different from say the 10th planet style of BJJ but, they're both BJJ.
Maybe it's just nit picking but, we in the MMA and BJJ world take things like names very seriously. To say that you teach Muay Thai implies something very specific to me, that you teach Muay Thai. Whether you've added concepts like hitting angles, narrowing the stance to a modified boxing stance incorporating head movement and slips and so on is all fine and very good but, IMO you have changed the primary way that the art is used so it's still Muay Thai. I myself am the head boxing and wrestling coach at our MMA gym we also have a head Muay Thai coach. We work together and blend our separate styles into one cohesive striking system for our guys to use but it's still Muay Thai and boxing.
This is not to say that what you do isn't very good and effective, I haven't seen it so I can't make that judgement. I just don't like the phrase Brazilian Muay Thai because there is no such thing. Nog does not refer to Anderson Silva as the Brazilian Muay Thai instructor at the Black House he's just the Muay Thai coach. I understand completely what you are saying I just personally don't like the wording.
In either case I hope you continue to post it will be nice to have another MT practioner around. Cheers.
Haha Thanks I got all that from Wikipedia, actually useful sometimes, whoda thunk it? I'm not entirely sure who you're responding to, I agree with what you're saying, but I can understand why someone would call it that, knowing a lot of people who are very particular about their Muay Thai, to the point of only wanting to learn it from a Thai. And to be honest, the technique is best coming straight from a Thai, but that's rather obvious I think. Once you've got that, though, I think it's good to incorporate whatever you can, it can only make you a better fighter in the end. However, I would feel differently if I were fighting Thais, because most of the North American adaptations just wouldn't fly with a Thai - you only need to watch Contender Asia to realize that. Anywho, I'm sure that whoever posted about the new gym here will hesitate to use that moniker again , even if it's Kosher in the T. hehe
Oh, and just to clarify, "what [i] do" is Muay Thai, so if what you're saying is true, and I think it is, then it's probably exactly what you think it is
(and I take Muay Thai very seriously, but words are just that - words - to me, as are names, so I really can't take offence if people want to choose their own to describe whatever it is they do - if it gets the art to more people, then I'm happy)
So, what's Pankration? Did you just make that word up?
LOL no. Pankration is an ancient form of Greek combat sports that was very popular in the first Olympics. While there is no absolute style of pankration, it's just a rule set involving both strking and grappling, many Greeks like myself are very passionate about the sport and it's return. There are a few submissions and take downs that I've only seen in Pankration though. I've competed several times in pankration both here in the states and in Greece and while my main styles are really bjj, wrestling and boxing I list it first because of my heritage.
That sounds really interesting. I'd like to see it sometime. I'm actually considering trying BJJ soon, perhaps when I find a new gym to train at. Thanks for the info
I trained with the owner of the new gym and I can tell you that it is muay thai and that it is taught in a different way. It includes clinch/knees/elbows so it is muay thai NOT kickboxing. It resembles the style that is taught in Brazil which can be viewed on you tube if you are not familiar. Enter chute boxe academy which is where he trained. The basic strikes and defenses are more or less the same. The style and the pace and the energy is different. Once you get use to the style it is hard to switch to traditional muay thai style. I don't think I've reached a level of expertise to be able to adequately discuss the finer points. However, I've tried both so I think I can comment. As for the reaction from everyone on the forum, I'm not surprised given that it's not officially recognized as different. Perhaps the name "Brazilian STYLE Muay Thai" or "Brazilian INFLUENCED Muay Thai" would have been less offensive. Regardless, I am excited about the opening of the gym.
RENEGADE NEW MUAY THAI GYM
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