RENEGADE NEW MUAY THAI GYM

[muaythaiforlife]

Hi all, I heard through the forums that this new gym is starting in Toronto and thought I'd talk about it cause it's really exciting to see a Brazilian style gym come to the downtown core! Finally! I'm so glad, I was really getting bored with the stationary old-school style. Brazilian incorporates a lot more boxing and movement, really good for cardio!! I would highly recommend this style, and you really can't find a good gym that offers it in Toronto!

[Joemoplata]

Muay Thai is not a Brazilian style, it's a Thai style.

The only two Martial Arts associated with Brazil are Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (which is really just modified judo/jujitsu) and Capoeira.

[Norton]

I don't think what he means is that Muay Thai is a Brazilian style. He means that the training is Brazilian Style, which is thought to be more hardcore and effective(since it's a more common thing to fight in Brazil, as far as I've heard,and because of their point of view in Judo which led to the creation of BJJ). At least, this is what I got from the post.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by Norton

I don't think what he means is that Muay Thai is a Brazilian style. He means that the training is Brazilian Style, which is thought to be more hardcore and effective(since it's a more common thing to fight in Brazil, as far as I've heard,and because of their point of view in Judo which led to the creation of BJJ). At least, this is what I got from the post.

I know, but that's just not how it works.

I can guarantee you that

1. Training Muay Thai in Brazil is not harder than it is in Thailand.
2. Anderson Silva would not go around telling people he trains Muay Thai Brazilian Style.
3. Muay Thai for MMA is different than it is for straight Muay Thai. If you're going to say you're training MMA Muay Thai then say you're training MMA.

I understand the marketing spin here, I get it okay...I just don't like it. Anderson Silva is known for being a pretty nice, humble guy and I hate to see people trying to cash in on his current popularity in a way I bet he wouldn't even like himself.

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

As usual I have to agree with Joe. It's ridiculous to think that training MT in Thailand is probably not mecca of Muay Thai. It's got Thai right in the name for God's sake and Thailand has more professional fighters per-capita then any where else in the world.

I do hate to see this kind of promotional stuff as well. I'd be more inclined to go to a fairfax gym then a Brazilian Style MT place. Just MO though.

[Norton]

Originally Posted by Joemoplata

I know, but that's just not how it works.

I can guarantee you that

1. Training Muay Thai in Brazil is not harder than it is in Thailand.
2. Anderson Silva would not go around telling people he trains Muay Thai Brazilian Style.
3. Muay Thai for MMA is different than it is for straight Muay Thai. If you're going to say you're training MMA Muay Thai then say you're training MMA.

I understand the marketing spin here, I get it okay...I just don't like it. Anderson Silva is known for being a pretty nice, humble guy and I hate to see people trying to cash in on his current popularity in a way I bet he wouldn't even like himself.

Yeah, I agree with you. I just said what I thought to be what he meant.

[muaythaiforlife]

The point I was making is that, like many martial arts, when trained in different countries, different aspects are emphasized, certain things adjusted, etc. "Brazilian" muay thai simply means that the changes made while the art has been practiced in Brazil. Which I take to mean more boxing, movement, striking in combinations, etc.

[muaythaiforlife]

I would never suggest that training in Brazil is more intense than in Thailand. I know many people who have done both, and myself have done neither. They're different. Plain and simple. That being said, there is a lot of fighting in Brazil, the style is more aggressive to reflect that. Thailand style is still very traditional. A lot of kicks, not a lot of boxing, even though some fighters - such as Yodsinklai (yeah butchered it) - do incorporate more than others. No one can kick like Thais, so that's why they mainly kick. Because of that, other nationalities can and do box more when competiting against non-Thais. Thai style is more of a martial art in the traditional sense - and by that I mean, very calculated, singular and effective movements, lots of reading your opponent before you move, really technical. Brazilian is heaving on striking. I don't mean to preach, as I'm sure you don't, I just kinda feel personally attacked and wanted to clarify what I mean. I like "Brazilian style" because I love boxing, and I've seen how effective it is against Traditional Thai style practiced by non-Thais.

[Joemoplata]

No, I disagree with this idea all together. If you are learning Muay Thai then you are learning an art that is from Thailand. The song is Thai, the dance is Thai, the language is Thai, the attire is Thai. It's the national sport of Thailand.

There are three styles of Martial Arts considered to have roots from Brazil: Capoeira, Luta Livre (Vale Tudo), and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. They have shown to be very successful in Boxing and Judo as well in International competition. But they are not looked to internationally as a powerhouse in the world of Muay Thai or, in a more broad definition, even in Kickboxing.

Holland, however, is considered one of the top countries in the world to train Kickboxing and have their own thing called Dutch Kickboxing which most people nowadays feel is probably slightly better for MMA than straight Muay Thai training.

So to associate an entire country as having a "style" for a specific art is just not fair IMO. While this particular school may have a rigorous training methodology that has proven successful for them, it's not really "Brazilian".

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

I agree that traditional Muay Thai does not have things like head movement and as good off foot work as boxing. I think a lot of gyms and different countries have extremely intense training as Joe mentioned the Dutch are famous for their kick boxing as are the French actually. The whole Brazilian thing just throws me off. Cheers though and good luck with the gym.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

I agree that traditional Muay Thai does not have things like head movement and as good off foot work as boxing. I think a lot of gyms and different countries have extremely intense training as Joe mentioned the Dutch are famous for their kick boxing as are the French actually. The whole Brazilian thing just throws me off. Cheers though and good luck with the gym.

I forgot about the French, but hey...who doesn't?

ZING!

But seriously, Savate is pretty good stuff.

[muaythaiforlife]

Just to clarify, Jiu Jitsu DID come from another country to Brazil, did it not?
It's a niche, to be sure. Not "world" famous, but regardless of it's level of popularity, or your personal knowledge of it, there are many schools in Brazil which have taken Muay Thai learned in Thailand and incorporated various different things into it, making it a style different from what is practiced in Thailand. If you wish to call it something else, I'm sure that's fine. It seems most logical to refer to it as Brazilian Muay Thai to me, but potato po-ta-to.
I would analogize this situation to, say, French kickboxing and American kickboxing. To my knowledge, Savate is older, and much different than American kickboxing. Does that make either one less kickboxing? I don't think so. I speak of "Brazilian Muay Thai" because it's very similar techically to Muay Thai than to any forms of kickboxing. It's semantics, I think it's great when different enthicities and nationalities try different things and put their own spin on them, it's the foundation of Canada's multicultural society.

[muaythaiforlife]

And just to be clear, I train both styles and so the distinction just seems necessary to me, as they are so different.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by muaythaiforlife

Just to clarify, Jiu Jitsu DID come from another country to Brazil, did it not?
It's a niche, to be sure. Not "world" famous, but regardless of it's level of popularity, or your personal knowledge of it, there are many schools in Brazil which have taken Muay Thai learned in Thailand and incorporated various different things into it, making it a style different from what is practiced in Thailand. If you wish to call it something else, I'm sure that's fine. It seems most logical to refer to it as Brazilian Muay Thai to me, but potato po-ta-to.
I would analogize this situation to, say, French kickboxing and American kickboxing. To my knowledge, Savate is older, and much different than American kickboxing. Does that make either one less kickboxing? I don't think so. I speak of "Brazilian Muay Thai" because it's very similar techically to Muay Thai than to any forms of kickboxing. It's semantics, I think it's great when different enthicities and nationalities try different things and put their own spin on them, it's the foundation of Canada's multicultural society.

No, it's not semantics. There is no Brazilian Muay Thai. There IS Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. If there are schools in Brazil training Muay Thai differently then fine, but it's not Muay Thai.

Welcome to the McDojo-ing of Muay Thai. Glad you all were here to see it happen.

[muaythaiforlife]

Where I'm from people make a point to say that the way Brazilians fight is different, especially those who don't like any changes being made to the art. I was one of them, in fact. But I like both, it's always good to learn new things. I'm well aware of the Dutch and their skill - hello Ramon Dekkers! I think the distinction I would draw between the Dutch and say, Brazilians, is that many of the top Dutch fighters train and fight in Thailand, whereas to my knowledge Brazilian fighters fight in Brazil and often do MMA. You guys also forgot the Aussies, I'm partial to JWP myself.
And dudes, I'm not a dude