Question on Ninjutsu

[Draven]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Why wont he?

He says they wanted to keep them. They say they wanted to carbon date them plus some other tests.

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

How can they say thiose are legit, if he has evidence to prove them wrong?

Because in order to be a proven legitimate koryu art, you must recogised by the above stated groups. Those not reconised are not a koryu (traditional) ryu or style. You can claim anything, but the governing body that be don't back you. Hatsumi's tradition is propaganda & marketing, as long as he refuses to allow them to test said scrolls. Until then he has no evidence except a government endorsement, which looks good but saying the sky is orange with pink & brown poka dots doesn't make it so regardless of who says it...

To explain this better, Seiko Fujita (the last ninja employed by the Japanese in WW2) trained 2000 men, 16 of those men lived. One commando who was trained by Fujita went on to establish the Japan spy services. Another went on to establish his own system of Karatejutsu based on Fujita's Kenpo, Jujutsu, & Shurikenjutsu systems mixed with other arts such as Judo, aikido etc.

When Fujita died he died with his top students, but the Guerrilla force trained by Fujita, some claim he taught them ninjutsu other claim it was just intonjutsu. Either way aspect of ninjutsu was taught & thus in many ways the aspects of the art continue in different forms. However this still leaves 13 other semi if not full trained individuals in the art of ninjutsu from him.

When "Ninjitsu/ninjutsu" first appeared state side with the ninja fade. Hayes & Hatsumi were the first to jump at the proven tradition thing. However, the first western practicer was an Isreali who taught the British SAS & American Special Forces. To complicate the issue, the same tactis the Americans were learning from the Isreali, were very similar to the methods the US army had already learned from the Japanese Commando units after WW2...

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

I think that the "who has the real ninjutsu" line is getting old

cause it doesnt matter what style of ninjutsu you train in

if your in Japan at a bar for example talking to a Japanese person about martial arts an u mention that u do ninjutsu

they are most likey gonna look at you like your a Moron who watched too many Episodes of Naruto......Especially if your a Gaijin

[Akai Shizuku]

Originally Posted by Draven

No but the Hasan were and thats were Al Queda gets their "religion" from. And ninja attacks happened in WWII...

They practice a warped and corrupted form of Islam. They are a disgrace to Islam, as terrorism is strictly forbidden in Islam. As a Muslim, I think I can assure you that my information is usually accurate.

[Unkotare]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

I think that the "who has the real ninjutsu" line is getting old

cause it doesnt matter what style of ninjutsu you train in

if your in Japan at a bar for example talking to a Japanese person about martial arts an u mention that u do ninjutsu

they are most likey gonna look at you like your a Moron who watched too many Episodes of Naruto......Especially if your a Gaijin

Right on the money

[Akai Shizuku]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

I think that the "who has the real ninjutsu" line is getting old

cause it doesnt matter what style of ninjutsu you train in

if your in Japan at a bar for example talking to a Japanese person about martial arts an u mention that u do ninjutsu

they are most likey gonna look at you like your a Moron who watched too many Episodes of Naruto......Especially if your a Gaijin

That's a problem, in my opinion. The media cheapens everything.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

I think that the "who has the real ninjutsu" line is getting old

cause it doesnt matter what style of ninjutsu you train in

if your in Japan at a bar for example talking to a Japanese person about martial arts an u mention that u do ninjutsu

they are most likey gonna look at you like your a Moron who watched too many Episodes of Naruto......Especially if your a Gaijin

Well, in some resounding immortal words:

"Who cares if Bruce Springsteen is a Shodoshi?"

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Akai Shizuku

They practice a warped and corrupted form of Islam. They are a disgrace to Islam, as terrorism is strictly forbidden in Islam. As a Muslim, I think I can assure you that my information is usually accurate.

So did the Hasan, which was my point... Different name, similar motives, same lies and same tactics. Which shows you the side state of the world we live in. I wasn't targets Muslins just targeting those who hide behind the name without the tenets there of.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

I think that the "who has the real ninjutsu" line is getting old

cause it doesnt matter what style of ninjutsu you train in

if your in Japan at a bar for example talking to a Japanese person about martial arts an u mention that u do ninjutsu

they are most likey gonna look at you like your a Moron who watched too many Episodes of Naruto......Especially if your a Gaijin

Yes, but the point is still the same, no one can claim a proven ninjutsu lineage to anything. Unless...

[Akai Shizuku]

Originally Posted by Draven

Yes, but the point is still the same, no one can claim a proven ninjutsu lineage to anything. Unless...

...Someone is known to be descended from ninja?

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Akai Shizuku

...Someone is known to be descended from ninja?

Yeah, ME!.......................

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Akai Shizuku

...Someone is known to be descended from ninja?

Yes and no, over 80% of the Japanese can claim ancestors who were either ninja, or samurai at some point. Since only one ninjutsu style, Fujita's hybred system was ever reconized by the government & he was sent to do "ninja missions" (Commando Operations) in WW2.

Only those who learned under him, the 16 other commandos or who learned under them can say they are a ninja. Since Fujita is recorded as the "Last Ninja employed by the Japanese Government." One of Fujita's commando students went on the form the Japanese Spy Service & another Motokatsu Inoue his own system of Karatejutsu, 3 died in a car accident & that left 13 men who where trained by Fujita & who are not accounted for...

So you can imagine the claims & false claims here, but there are people who can claim ninjutsu in some form. By this lineage alone, if not to orthadox (Traditional) ninjutsu to unorthadox (modernized) ninjutsu systems.

[Akai Shizuku]

Originally Posted by Draven

Yes and no, over 80% of the Japanese can claim ancestors who were either ninja, or samurai at some point. Since only one ninjutsu style, Fujita's hybred system was ever reconized by the government & he was sent to do "ninja missions" (Commando Operations) in WW2.

Only those who learned under him, the 16 other commandos or who learned under them can say they are a ninja. Since Fujita is recorded as the "Last Ninja employed by the Japanese Government." One of Fujita's commando students went on the form the Japanese Spy Service & another Motokatsu Inoue his own system of Karatejutsu, 3 died in a car accident & that left 13 men who where trained by Fujita & who are not accounted for...

So you can imagine the claims & false claims here, but there are people who can claim ninjutsu in some form. By this lineage alone, if not to orthadox (Traditional) ninjutsu to unorthadox (modernized) ninjutsu systems.

So Japanese people are taking every excuse possible to call themselves ninja?

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Akai Shizuku

So Japanese people are taking every excuse possible to call themselves ninja?

No, they could if they wanted to go by who they are related to way back when. I claim to be English & Irish Noblity because of my ancestor from 1000 years ago, doesn't make me a Duke or Count or whatever...

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Draven

No, they could if they wanted to go by who they are related to way back when. I claim to be English & Irish Noblity because of my ancestor from 1000 years ago, doesn't make me a Duke or Count or whatever...

But, the Ninja and Samurai were titles bestowed?

[Akai Shizuku]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

But, the Ninja and Sanurai were titles bestowed?

Usually. A ninja's son isn't a ninja until he is trained and given the title.