You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
John, I'm not really sure where you got that information, but the organized group of spies and assassins known as ninja were not historically known until about the 15th century. I'm even willing to grant another century that they managed to work in complete secrecy, so we'll say that the ninja might have been around in the 14th century. That still leaves twenty-one or so centuries between the year you gave and what is historically possible.
Even Ashida Kim's own website lists back to the 16th century with regards to the history of the ninja.
As far as the Kata Dante, it is a compilation of goshin jitsu and basic strikes from Shorin Ryu karate. It was developed by a guy who renamed himself "Count Dante" after he had a falling out with his old style of karate. Count Dante wanted to be considered the deadliest man in the world.
Ashida Kim is...questionable, to say the least. His website is the website of a salesperson, not a dedicated martial artist. If he teaches the Kata Dante as part of his training regimen, that part is karate (and, the way I saw it performed, not effective karate, either). He has put up a $10,000 challenge with massive legal and financial demands on the challenger. He has even turned down at least one challenger who met with the demands. He makes a gigantic deal about being an extra in a couple of movies, but doesn't point out that the reason he was turned down for major roles was that he repeatedly injured stuntmen because he refused to pull his kicks or punches.
__________________
"I don't have the knack of victory at all times. I have only learned how not to miss the right moment." Kenshin Uesugi
"If you confer only with people in your own circle (relatives and friends), their opinions will naturally favor you, rendering them useless." Tsunetomo Yamamoto
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change."
Thich Nhat Hanh
I have a A.K. book from long ago-given to me by a relative. Many closest relatives gave me books, mag subscriptions, oriental items, etc, in the distance past. Strange, as soon as close friends and relatives know that you're a martial artist, you get these things.
The A.K. book was a interesting tale at least, with little concise research
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Let me tell you why Shao-lin Kuei Ninjitsu is the best ninjitsu there is:
1. It's Shaolin.
2. We have two Grandmaster-Sensei's (Grandmaster-Sensei Takeshi Ukeno, and myself--who was recently promoted to the tenth degree [no more honorary tenth's for me])
3. It's Ninjitsu. Actually, I want this to be number 1 instead of the number 1. I put on there originally. Mods...can you switch the "Shaolin" on number 1 with the "Ninjitsu" in number 3? Thanks in advance.
4. It's Shao-lin Ninjitsu, and we've defeated the Kogo-Ryu in every September kumite I've held so far.
That's why you should stop whatever you're doing it and start studying this art.
__________________
The essence of the tiger spiritual is contained in the habitual instinctual.--GS Takeshi Ukeno
Ok, just to be clear, everyone knows Ashida Kim is perhaps the biggest fraud/joke in the entire MA universe, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven
So please tell where you are getting your information?
Because I have talked to Ashida Kim. And by his own admitance, he studied judo and karate on military bases as a kid. He also has stated that he learned ninjitsu because of how well he had learn those other arts. The Kata Dante was origionally form of hungar kung fu, modified by john keehan aka juan raphiel dante into the kata dante. The specific form, prior to its modification was a chinese kung fu form and does go back far longer.
I got my info from Ashida Kim, John Keehan's own written material & interview with Black Belt Magazine. I have direct first hand and indirect first hand accounts. Nothing is plain wrong unless these men are lieing.
I was under the impression ashida kim (as unkotare rightly put) is a fraud, On this point I agree completely with unkotare, although I have done very little of my own research and read a few of his works it appears he does not carry forth the essence of what I understand to be ninjutsu, or even any of the spirited nature that defines a sensei.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
Actually, the KAta Dante is a modification of an older kata known as "The Rain-Water Slough"....in rough translation off the top of my head. It's a distillation of many of ninjitsu's core techniques, as taught to children. Despite the Kata Dante's "spurious" origins, it is a useful tool for tots.
I don't think either one of them was right. Ninjas were ninjas, samurai were samurai, and ronin were ronin. Ronin were masterless samurai; samurai had masters; ninjas were masters. It's really a simple hierarchy.
As for that overly simplistic hierarchy, I dont think you can see things in such black and white, for example you put 'ninja were their own masters' incorrect, samurai and shogun aided in the creation of ninjutsu by hiring ninja as mercenaries, thier own Bushido forbade them from underhand tactics, so they took control of groups of warriors capable of doing things they couldn't. this is just one small example of interaction between the three groups. who were not really separate, but I imagine blended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
Let me tell you why Shao-lin Kuei Ninjitsu is the best ninjitsu there is:
1. It's Shaolin.
2. We have two Grandmaster-Sensei's (Grandmaster-Sensei Takeshi Ukeno, and myself--who was recently promoted to the tenth degree [no more honorary tenth's for me])
3. It's Ninjitsu. Actually, I want this to be number 1 instead of the number 1. I put on there originally. Mods...can you switch the "Shaolin" on number 1 with the "Ninjitsu" in number 3? Thanks in advance.
4. It's Shao-lin Ninjitsu, and we've defeated the Kogo-Ryu in every September kumite I've held so far.
That's why you should stop whatever you're doing it and start studying this art.
John takeshi your final post is shameful, I cant understand why you think this is even close to useful, this is a place of learning not a place to advertise your own martial art, and for that fact not even advertise it very well.
1. (its shaolin) how does this make it better, shaolin can be almost as full of fraud as ashida kim!
2. (two grandmasters) I honestly dont care what dan you are, youve shown no respect by claiming your art to be the best, you've actually put shame to your art by claiming its the best a 'grand master' should know better.
3. (its ninjutsu) so your telling me that ninjutsu is the best art, yet any good master will know its the student that makes the art, I am still a student and I understand this!
4. (defeated arts in kumite) so your students can win competitions, this reflects nothing of their ability to defend themselves on the street.
I honestly think you made this post to advertise your art and brag about being a grandmaster, in which case your not a very good grandmaster, I suggest you find a new sensei
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do, Kobudo Bojutsu, Ju-jitsu, Kickboxing, Yumedo (a self-styled form of kenjutsu).
Posts: 1,615
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I was under the impression ashida kim (as unkotare rightly put) is a fraud, On this point I agree completely with unkotare, although I have done very little of my own research and read a few of his works it appears he does not carry forth the essence of what I understand to be ninjutsu, or even any of the spirited nature that defines a sensei.
As for that overly simplistic hierarchy, I dont think you can see things in such black and white, for example you put 'ninja were their own masters' incorrect, samurai and shogun aided in the creation of ninjutsu by hiring ninja as mercenaries, thier own Bushido forbade them from underhand tactics, so they took control of groups of warriors capable of doing things they couldn't. this is just one small example of interaction between the three groups. who were not really separate, but I imagine blended.
John takeshi your final post is shameful, I cant understand why you think this is even close to useful, this is a place of learning not a place to advertise your own martial art, and for that fact not even advertise it very well.
1. (its shaolin) how does this make it better, shaolin can be almost as full of fraud as ashida kim!
2. (two grandmasters) I honestly dont care what dan you are, youve shown no respect by claiming your art to be the best, you've actually put shame to your art by claiming its the best a 'grand master' should know better.
3. (its ninjutsu) so your telling me that ninjutsu is the best art, yet any good master will know its the student that makes the art, I am still a student and I understand this!
4. (defeated arts in kumite) so your students can win competitions, this reflects nothing of their ability to defend themselves on the street.
I honestly think you made this post to advertise your art and brag about being a grandmaster, in which case your not a very good grandmaster, I suggest you find a new sensei
John, I must, although on a more polite tone than Ben, agree with him on this. Any Shihan should know that the student makes the art. Even I, who am neck-deep in the arts I practice, know that they aren't superior to others; I am the one who is superior to others. *ahem* Kidding. Seriously, however, all martial arts deserve proper respect. An art that can be applied nearly flawlessly by you or me may not work so well when wielded by Ben, for example. I don't really know who Ashida Kim is, but he doesn't exactly seem genuine from what I've read. Anyway, John, if you want to tell us about why you love Shao-lin Ninjutsu so much, then please provide reasons for your explanations and thinking. I would be interested to hear it, and I bet everyone else (even Ben) would too.
__________________
Shizuku Mai wa Shizuku Akai no kokoro...Kirei da ne?
"I've learned a lot from being alone. As long as you didn't let go of my hand, I felt like I could do anything..." -Ayumi Hamasaki
"Now I'm lost in you, like I always do, and I'll die to win, 'cause I'm born to lose..." -Breaking Benjamin
Apparently, it's symbolic of being born again in the blood of the lamb.
Although I do think Christianity is just the tops when it comes to religion, meditation is different. If you're a Christian, like me, meditate upon what it means that you're practicing an art to kill, in order to achieve peace. I know I might catch flack for this, but I like to think of Jesus as a ninja. He lived, preached, died, and came back, and promised to get his revenge. It's very ninja-like. Fake deaths, revenge by the sword.
But if you're going to get mixed up with the red ninjas, which i don't recommend, since they're part of the Kogo-ryu lineage, which is diametrically opposed to my clan and our sworn enemies, make sure you don't get mixed in with that radically communistic group in Idaho. They don't know anything about ninjitsu, and just do karate while wearing masks. It's sad.
Are you white? Cuz I thought the Original Ninjutsu clans only let Japanese in--there being only one exeption. That's what I read in a book anyway.
I was under the impression ashida kim (as unkotare rightly put) is a fraud, On this point I agree completely with unkotare, although I have done very little of my own research and read a few of his works it appears he does not carry forth the essence of what I understand to be ninjutsu, or even any of the spirited nature that defines a sensei.
I won't debate the fraud or not issue. I know the man personally and have found him to be a pretty descend human being. Ashida Kim, openly teaches a hybred style of ninjitsu. Personally I find his mystical BS and Hatsumi's Mystical BS to be about the same. AK preaches Zen and Hatsumi Shinto, so I tend to agree with Bussey that ninjitsu has allot of occultism to it...
Oh and Bussey was this great young master, until he stepped away from the Bujinkan, then he becane a "fraud" to.
__________________
My Personal Mantra:
Where I walk, I walk alone...
Given unto the winds, I am free...
And yet a slave to my own soul...
3. It's Ninjitsu. Actually, I want this to be number 1 instead of the number 1. I put on there originally. Mods...can you switch the "Shaolin" on number 1 with the "Ninjitsu" in number 3? Thanks in advance.
You can edit your own post. Heck, you could have edited it while you were writing it. I am not changing anything.
[quote=John Takeshi;52545] Let me tell you why Shao-lin Kuei Ninjitsu is the best ninjitsu there is:
This is too egotistical and boastful. Sounds immature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
1. It's Shaolin.
OMG...Mixing a Chinese word /phrase with a Japanese one. Shows how make-shift something can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
2. We have two Grandmaster-Sensei's (Grandmaster-Sensei Takeshi Ukeno, and myself--who was recently promoted to the tenth degree [no more honorary tenth's for me])
Strange, I see no site in reference of him, other than your posts on other forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
3. It's Ninjitsu. Actually, I want this to be number 1 instead of the number 1. I put on there originally.
This doesnt make sense. Because its is Ninjutsu makes it the best ninjutsu?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
4.) It's Shao-lin Ninjitsu, and we've defeated the Kogo-Ryu in every September kumite I've held so far.
So "you say".
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Takeshi
That's why you should stop whatever you're doing it and start studying this art.
Sounds juvenile to me.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
I was under the impression ashida kim (as unkotare rightly put) is a fraud, On this point I agree completely with unkotare, although I have done very little of my own research and read a few of his works it appears he does not carry forth the essence of what I understand to be ninjutsu, or even any of the spirited nature that defines a sensei.
As for that overly simplistic hierarchy, I dont think you can see things in such black and white, for example you put 'ninja were their own masters' incorrect, samurai and shogun aided in the creation of ninjutsu by hiring ninja as mercenaries, thier own Bushido forbade them from underhand tactics, so they took control of groups of warriors capable of doing things they couldn't. this is just one small example of interaction between the three groups. who were not really separate, but I imagine blended.
John takeshi your final post is shameful, I cant understand why you think this is even close to useful, this is a place of learning not a place to advertise your own martial art, and for that fact not even advertise it very well.
1. (its shaolin) how does this make it better, shaolin can be almost as full of fraud as ashida kim!
2. (two grandmasters) I honestly dont care what dan you are, youve shown no respect by claiming your art to be the best, you've actually put shame to your art by claiming its the best a 'grand master' should know better.
3. (its ninjutsu) so your telling me that ninjutsu is the best art, yet any good master will know its the student that makes the art, I am still a student and I understand this!
4. (defeated arts in kumite) so your students can win competitions, this reflects nothing of their ability to defend themselves on the street.
I honestly think you made this post to advertise your art and brag about being a grandmaster, in which case your not a very good grandmaster, I suggest you find a new sensei
Nicely replied.
The old saying..."not bad student, bad teacher"
Teacher polluted this person's mind.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
I won't debate the fraud or not issue. I know the man personally and have found him to be a pretty descend human being. Ashida Kim, openly teaches a hybred style of ninjitsu. Personally I find his mystical BS and Hatsumi's Mystical BS to be about the same. AK preaches Zen and Hatsumi Shinto, so I tend to agree with Bussey that ninjitsu has allot of occultism to it...
Oh and Bussey was this great young master, until he stepped away from the Bujinkan, then he becane a "fraud" to.
One of a few posts that I like from you.....
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Question on Ninjutsu
*ahem* Kidding. Seriously, however, all martial arts deserve proper respect. An art that can be applied nearly flawlessly by you or me may not work so well when wielded by Ben, for example. I don't really know who Ashida Kim is, but he doesn't exactly seem genuine from what I've read. Anyway, John, if you want to tell us about why you love Shao-lin Ninjutsu so much, then please provide reasons for your explanations and thinking. I would be interested to hear it, and I bet everyone else (even Ben) would too.
Linear Mode
