Analysis of Koga Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu

[Draven]

This should be a good thread starter. I've mentioned before that I knew and was friends with Ashida Kim and many of his students. And as always when this was brought up we were directed to the claims and acusations of the man being a fraud and a fake.

At any rate this is an article sent to me by one of Ashida Kim's students and a friend of mine. So here is the challenge, read this article and see exactly where the sources come from and what was really said. Then form your own opinions, if we can keep this from being a flame war and pissing context we might actually have some fun with the thread lol...

Analysis Of Koga Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu

Ashida Kim, has been a controversial subject for years. And, the "ninja war of words" between Ashida Kim & Stephen K. Hayes has been the inspiration of many ill-researched claims toward on side or the other. So, with this article I plan to discuss Ashida Kim and dissect his Koga Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu. My goal is to remain impartial in my assessments of the style. In order to do this I must put aside my personal friendships and will quote directly from the books written by Ashida Kim on the subjects of ninjitsu.

History of Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu:
The over all history of Koga Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu begins at China in the form of Sun Tzu’s art of war. From this source does Ashida Kim traces ninjitsu to Saijin Omoto (the first "Shinobi") of Japan. There is little other historical information on ninjitsu, however Ashida Kim does mention numerous masters of other styles outside of ninjitsu which leads one to believe Ashida Kim does not practice "pure" ninjitsu but a mix of other styles blended with ninjitsu, to form a modern day ninjitsu, draw from a traditional lineage.
Ashida Kim, also quotes externally of other sources such as Mitchivelli’s the Price as an example to reference. As such, it appears that Ashida Kim follows a Philosophical Tradition rather then a historical one. While a philosophical tradition many contain a deep historic tradition, the goal of a philosophical tradition is growth of the members and the tradition itself. As such only the "idea" or "spirit" of the tradition matters.
Further evidenced as a philosophical tradition in the 16th Chapter of the book Secrets of the Ninja published by Citadel Press under the heading Mugei-Mumei-no-jitsu "Ninjitsu is revealed here in as a pragmatic art. It will employ any technique from any source which will serve its purpose."

Philosophy of Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu:
The philosophy of Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu is divided among many areas of thought. For example, one may use any technique from any source that will serve one’s purposes. Likewise, one may be predisposed to learning or favoring a certain aspect. As such a person who believes strongly in spiritualism, meditation, magic or religion may in fact do so and employ these same concepts of study. At the same time, a person predisposed to believe in science and debases religion may also find use of the scientific psychological principles there of.
Ashida Kim refers to this philosophy as Mugei-Mumei-No-Jitsu "No Name No Art" in this philosophy one is to draw on anything of value to the individual and to in turn follow this advise "Ninjitsu is revealed here in as a pragmatic art. It will employ any technique from any source which will serve its purpose. It strives always to be with the natural order of things. This is the true meaning of passing without leaving a trace… The Ninja acts alone, relying on his [or her] own ability. He is one with himself."

Magical Powers of Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu:
While many people have claimed that Ashida Kim preaches a doctrine of magical powers and cult-like worship of Asian mysticism. I have found this to be exact opposite. Ashida Kim has & does quote from various texts and philosophies considered to be occultism in nature. However, this "occult-doctrine" is not the case of Ashida Kim’s personal agenda. He simply makes a reference to Shinto, Taoist & Buddhist philosophies which have influenced his art.
"Ninja place as much importance on the spiritual and mental aspects of their art as on the physical. To this end they have developed exercises to sharpen their perception and psychological insight. These techniques also serve to rejuvenate the body, calm the mind, and cultivate the inner strength. It was said that the ancient ninja could sense hidden enemies, foresee the imminent death of a sick or aged person, and predict the breakup of a marriage." From page five of Secrets of the Ninja.
While Ashida Kim states that the ninja could sense hidden enemies, foresee the imminent death of a sick or aged person and predict the break up of a marriage, he also attributes this to "perception & psychological insights." What magic is there in perception of one’s environment & other’s mental/emotional states and psychological insight there employed upon these perceptions?
Even in the next paragraph where Ashida Kim discusses meditation for developing chi & chi as inner strength. Ashida Kim further defines chi as "a force within all people that can be forged to perform the will." He goes on to say in the following paragraph that "The secret of meditation is regular practice. Perseverance, diligence and quiet determination are required."
So then while Ashida Kim makes claims of chi as a force within all people that can be forged to perform the will and arguably this can be seen as a description of magical powers or simply focused intent. Ashida Kim also goes on further to call the use of such mystical-occultism as exercise in regular practice, perseverance, diligence and quiet determination of perception and psychological insights. Is it magick or psychology, that Ashida Kim is referring to? Can it be both for those who believe in both, or simply allow one side to neglect the other through their own bias?
Does Ashida Kim, believe in magic? I don’t know, but let us assume he does for the sake of argument. Is this belief in magic any different then say the religions of many continents or in the belief in psychic powers? Not really, no. At the same time, however in the books Invisible Fist, Secrets of the Ninja & Ninja Secrets of Invisibility Ashida Kim also speaks of the power of belief & of how totems give faith to these who lack such belief in their personal strength of will. So then we are left to ask does Ashida Kim believe in magical powers or does he simply see them as psychological exercises to develop "faith?" Ultimately we are left with not knowing either but see evidence of both, allowing us to decide in that which we believe ourselves to be true or false behind a magician’s smoke screen.

Continued into Next Post....

[Draven]

Techniques of Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu:
In Secrets of the Ninja, on page 152; Ashida Kim wrote "Ninjitsu is revealed here in as a pragmatic art. It will employ any technique from any source which will serve its purpose." In the booklet Ninja Hands of Death Ashida Kim also wrote "The ultimate warrior is not the one with who presents the flashiest techniques or even a great variety of striking methods. He is the one who prevails."
So then any use of Kung-fu, Aikido, Karate, Judo or Jujitsu methods or terminology are simply the result of the incorporation of those arts within Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu. Does this debase or embrace a martial art known for its adaptability and practical effectiveness?
On Page 1 of Deadly Grip of the Ninja Ashida Kim writes "In Koga ryu, grappling is taught first. This is because most fights quickly deteriorate into wresting contests where grappling is primary. It is felt the Ninja should not only be qualified in this field, but also highly competent." On Page 101 & 102 Ashida Kim then states "In Ninja grappling, there are five ways of prevailing over an opponent: by a high, spectacular throw in which he is driven to the ground forcefully enough to knock the wind out of him; by a pinning or immobilization hold wherein the opponent is forced to surrender or wear himself out trying to escape; by a joint-lock, which creates sufficient pain to ensure compliance; by a choke or stranglehold, which the opponent is rendered unconscious or semi-conscious by means of pressure against the neck; and ikken hiatsu, or the coup de grace which is a strike to a vital organ or part of the body either as an initial blow as the opponent advances, or as a final blow to render him senseless or dead."
From the above statements, we can see that such techniques as chokes/strangleholds, joint manipulations and so forth are all taught within the system. Within the above quoted book are techniques such as the Step-over Arm-Lever Takedown that uses a wrist grab & round house kick combination to set in a judo or Brazilian jiu-jutsu cross-arm bar or Overarm Throw which is especially effective against an attacker with a weapon. At the same time techniques such as the single leg takedown common to wrestling, shootfighing and similar systems are also observed.
Chapter six of Ninja Secrets of Invisibility includes several escapes & reversals, some of which also appears from a pseudo-clinch type situation.
In the booklet Ninja Hands of Death Ashida Kim wrote "All martial arts teach punches and kicks as well as target areas, vital and fatal points of the body, and so on. The ultimate warrior is not the one with who presents the flashiest techniques or even a great variety of striking methods. He is the one who prevails."
To this we consider that Ashida Kim’s Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu is an art of winning and will apply any and all methods, which allows the individual to succeed. To this end all that matters is the goal and not that which drives the goal to success. At least as far as fighting techniques are concerned anyway. Ashida Kim gives only this advise for the guidance of those who practice Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu in Ninja Hands of Death "The only justification of Force is to establish, restore or maintain order. So that all may live in harmony."

Sources of Information:
Thus, I challenge anyone who says otherwise to quote from his or her source as I have done and prove me wrong if you claim otherwise. As "Big" Lew Wallice used to say "the proof is in the pudding" and at least I brought "my pudding."
Secrets of the Ninja, Published by Citadel Press in 1981 ISBN 0-8065-0866-3
Ninja Secrets of Invisibility, Published by Paladin Press in 1983 ISBN 0-87364-279-1
Ninja Hands of Death, Published by Dojo Press in 1999 ISBN 0-87364-322-4
Deadly Grip of the Ninja, Published by Paladin Press in 1987 ISBN 0-87364-441-7

[complete]

Moved to Ninjitsu section.

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

This is about as impartial as Hitler's Mien Kampf. This article is a justification of Ashida Kim's practices more then likely written by one of his followers. I'd like the two minuets of my life back that I wasted on reading this "impartial" article.

[Draven]

I believe it was written to counter the equally one sided Bullshido article. But, I find it strange you'd bring up Hitler its almost as if your trying to impress a certain image in peoples minds..?

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

Originally Posted by Draven

I believe it was written to counter the equally one sided Bullshido article. But, I find it strange you'd bring up Hitler its almost as if your trying to impress a certain image in peoples minds..?

Not really. What I'm saying is that the way you presented this thread was a complete falsehood. You made it seem as here is an impartial article on Ashida Kim and his style read the article then make up your own mind. And then you give us this long one sided article that is clearly written to make people sympathize with Kim. I now know that this was written in response to a one sided article on Bullshido that I have not read but I was not aware of when I first read this entire long ass article. If you would have said 'some people we're bashing Kim on Bullshido, I like Kim please read this and then come around to our way of thinking' I would have at least known you intentions from the start. By the way you presented this "impartial" info only makes me feel stronger in the idea that Kim and his followers are nothing more then frauds and extremists.

[Joemoplata]

The more people try to back him up the more fanatical they appear and the more justification we normal people have for not falling for brainwashing techniques like his.

[Ben]

ashida kim, an absolute waste of time.

[JackG]

anyone that rights books called;
Ninja Hands of Death
Deadly Grip of the Ninja
Secrets of the Ninja,
Ninja Secrets of Invisibility,

worries me,

This is one point I agree with Joe and Tri 100% wanna prove your better than someone step in the Octagon and prove it !

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

This is about as impartial as Hitler's Mien Kampf. This article is a justification of Ashida Kim's practices more then likely written by one of his followers. I'd like the two minuets of my life back that I wasted on reading this "impartial" article.

I don't see where he said it was impartial. In fact, I read the beginning and said to myself, "so, this is a defense of Kim post."

Originally Posted by Draven

But, I find it strange you'd bring up Hitler its almost as if your trying to impress a certain image in peoples minds..?

In fairness, Triangle never claimed to be impartial either.

[WC_Lun]

In my opinion, if a studet must send emails like this to defend a teacher, then there is indeed something very wrong somewhere. I would hazard to guess that the problem originated with the subjuct of the defense, as is usually the case. Of course, I only know about Ashida Kim and the contreversey through second hand sources. The only thing I would say for certain is with his reputation I would pay someone else to teach before I would pay him.

[Joemoplata]

Originally Posted by WC_Lun

In my opinion, if a studet must send emails like this to defend a teacher, then there is indeed something very wrong somewhere. I would hazard to guess that the problem originated with the subjuct of the defense, as is usually the case. Of course, I only know about Ashida Kim and the contreversey through second hand sources. The only thing I would say for certain is with his reputation I would pay someone else to teach before I would pay him.

Yep. Always defending someone who has such a bad public reputation borders on cult like mentality.

[TRIANGLEFROMGUARD]

Originally Posted by Chapel

I don't see where he said it was impartial. In fact, I read the beginning and said to myself, "so, this is a defense of Kim post."



In fairness, Triangle never claimed to be impartial either.

Not Draven, the article itself.

My goal is to remain impartial in my assessments of the style. In order to do this I must put aside my personal friendships and will quote directly from the books written by Ashida Kim on the subjects of ninjitsu.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

one error i see in the disection of whether it be Koga or whatever style of ninjutsu is giving China the credit of being where ninjutsu began. China has an influence by way of warfare strategies

but that does not mean that its the beginning. those influences as well as influences from other cultures came later on by way of travelers and expatriots

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD

Not Draven, the article itself.

My goal is to remain impartial in my assessments of the style. In order to do this I must put aside my personal friendships and will quote directly from the books written by Ashida Kim on the subjects of ninjitsu.

Ah, ok.

Draven, you have to admit that is a confusing sentence. How does one act impartial when quoting from just one side of the story?