Bujinkan

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Sake Sipper

What sources led you to this conclusion?

Sake;

The more I read that member's posts, the more I want to do what a banned member had done.....







I couldnt help myself.....

[Draven]

Well for more information on the specific linages of the bujinkan ryu-ha I've previded a link. In the final pages of Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu written by Hatsumi in 1983 as a Bujinkan instructors handbook (Hatsumi's first book BTW) he says that writing any densho (written documents) was forbidden and that by writing that book it was like going against the former masters of those schools. To this one must ask which schools, to which there is no answer. None of the "ninjutsu" schools have a densho or at least the name sake of Togakure Ryu does not. Since Hatsumi has never proven his ninjutsu lineages we simply do not know, however the 6 samurai schools are proven to a certain degree for the most part.

As for Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu being ninjutsu/ninpo? Why is that Hatsumi changed the name from Togakure Ryu Ninpo/ninjutsu to Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu to Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu to Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu? To this I'll repeat what I was told when I was in the Bujinkan. Hatsumi used the term Togakure Ryu Ninpo because Togakure Ryu was the oldest of the nine Ryu-ha. In its modern format Hatsumi was teaching essentually self-defense and therefore the largest focus was on hand-to-hand (taijutsu) so that the school became known as Ninpo Taijutsu. Eventually Hatsumi's smaller dojo was expanded by the ninja-boom and several Western Instructors at the forfront of this was Hayes and Bussey. This was the creation of the Bujinkan trademark name. And then in the later nineties and earily 2000s the term budo taijutsu was used to seperate the art from the "ninja-name," but still contain the techniques of ninpo.

Personally all the name changing confusses me and there are still Bujinkan instructors who swear they teach ninjutsu event though Hatsumi claims to have taught only a handful of Westerns true ninjutsu, Hayes, Van Donk, Nova, Bussey & select group of others.

[JadeDragon]

Originally Posted by Sake Sipper

What sources led you to this conclusion?

I read it in a few books by Hayes and Hatsumi. I forget which books they were but when I go home tonight after work I'll look and see. Not all ninja were renegade samurai but some were.

[JadeDragon]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Sake;

The more I read that member's posts, the more I want to do what a banned member had done.....







I couldnt help myself.....

47Martial....are you referring to my post? If so, why do you have a problem with it?

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by JadeDragon

47Martial....are you referring to my post? If so, why do you have a problem with it?

Originally Posted by JadeDragon

Actually most of the ninja's back then were renegade Samurai that fled to the mountains to try and live in peace. Thats all the ninja wanted to do was to live in peace but they were constantly being attcked by various groups of people.

CONTRADICTS-

Some of the ninja did do assisnations for various war lords but it was not a common thing. The ninja did more intellegence gathering, survellence, and espionage, than anything else. They would relay false information to different war lords to start a war between the two and minipulate info so that the side they wanted to win would win. The ninja would use myth and rumor to put fear in their enemy so they would have an advantage over them. Hence the rumor that ninja can run up walls and walk on water and disappear at will.

Per some of the posts below;

Originally Posted by complete

I'm no expert in Japanese martial arts but little history lesson I learned over the years tells me that Samurais and Ninjas are indeed different. Samurais live by certain code that they value more than their life. Ninjas were trained assasins who killed people for money.

I don't know about the actual samurai combat technique difference from Ninja techniques, but I don't think you can actually say that samurais were actually ninjas.

Originally Posted by MrPickles

No ninjas were not honorable. They put survival before service to the emperor. Not all ninjas were purely assassins. Most probably weren't. I think you have been watching too many movies.

Sake Sipper: "What sources led you to this conclusion? "