capoeira

[beibitoi]

hi.. I just want to ask your opinion, comments, etc.
I'm planning to enrol in a capoeira class. And I just have few questions to ask.. Is capoeira an effective means of self-defense? Is it really classified as a martial art, or a form of dance, music, etc. which is basically intended for entertainment? I know it sounds stupid.. Sorry about that. I just have confusions about its nature. Ive watched lots of videos, and I view capoeira sometimes similar to "break dancing". Some people also view it not as a form of martial art. However, I also have watched movies. It is then that i also view it as a martial art. How long will it take you to be considered as "intermediate" in capoeira? And also, I am now 19. Is it not too late for me to start capoeira lessons? Sorry if you find my questions stupid. I just have to ask those questions to avoid confusion. I'm hoping for your help.. thanks a lot..

[sannin227]

I know capoeira requires lots of strength/stamina/balance/flexibility, so it's a great thing to start with if you want to go to another martial art later on.

[disgruntled]

don't get me wrong, capoeira is really cool, but i don't know if it is the best MA if you want to learn for self defence. what got you interested in capoeira?

PS there are a couple of people here that practice capoeira and they will be the most helpful to answer your question.

[N.B]

Hello, whoa, lots of questions. Awesome.

Originally Posted by beibitoi

Is capoeira an effective means of self-defense?

No, there is so much to say about Capoeira as self defence but, in brief, the best advice I could give you if you want to learn a martial art which has great self defence applications, try Jujitsu or some form of boxing. Capoeira puts you in better stead than if you did no martial arts at all. But I think if I had started doing Muay Thai, Judo or something similar 5 months ago instead of Capoeira, I would handle myself a lot better if I ever had to use it on the street.
It's a bit of a extensive subject, but that's all I'll say for now (I shouldn't even be on here, I should be revising, heh heh).

Originally Posted by beibitoi

Is it really classified as a martial art, or a form of dance, music, etc.

Yep, it's a martial art alright, because in a dance, you get a few steps wrong and you just look a bit foolish. In Capoeira, depending on the type of game you are playing, make a wrong move and get tricked or caught out by the opponent, and you could get kicked...very hard...and you look foolish.

Originally Posted by beibitoi

Ive watched lots of videos, and I view capoeira sometimes similar to "break dancing".

Nah, breakdancing is similar to Capoeira. I recently found out someone from my old school started breakdancing about the same time as I started Capoeira, I'll have to get in touch with him, maybe I can glean some information off him/challenge him to a dual...now where's that white glove...

Originally Posted by beibitoi

How long will it take you to be considered as "intermediate" in capoeira?

It depends on the group, I can't remember correctly, but I think our instructor is about intermediate level and it took him about 7 years to get there, and that's not because he's a slow learner, it just takes that long. He says he'll probably have the belt he's got now for another 2-3 years. Although what really helps is if you cross train with something else. Other martial arts, gymnastics, yoga or breakdancing are good ones to cross train with.

Originally Posted by beibitoi

And also, I am now 19. Is it not too late for me to start capoeira lessons?

Nope, you're never too old. I started Capoeira (and martials arts in general) when I was 19 about to turn 20, but I've only been doing it for 5 months on and off (I practice it at university and go home for the holidays), and the benefits are amazing. I'm stronger and faster than I ever was and I've met the best group of people. I'm also far more motivated and active than I ever was.

I can't descibe how much I love Capoeira, I believe it is the best martial art in the world, in terms of the sheer enjoyment factor. Just be warned that not many people realise how long the learning curve is, which causes a lot of people to give up. But I don't care if I become good or not, I just love Capoeira.

[Chapel]

I basically agree with what N.B said (not that I do Capoeira). Usually I say that self-defense applications depend on the person and the school, however, I don't know of any Capoeira schools that focus on self-defense. That being said, I have heard some Capoeirista say that there are some combat effective moves that aren't used often because they would simply end the roda (when usually the goal is to continue it). It would be interesting for someone to write something about self-defense applications of Capoeira.

[beibitoi]

Thanks N.B., Chapel, disgruntled, and sannin.

Actually, I am amazed with the movements in Capoeira. I think, by learning Capoeira, I will have a lot of improvements. Both mind and body. I also find it very interesting.

If that's the case, is it possible to learn 2 different martial arts at the same time? Say, Capoeira and other art? If it's possible, what other art would you recommend? What martial art would possibly fit with capoeira? If possible, something that i can use effectively even without have a huge muscles... Since I am medium built..

Please help.. I need to have a decision.. Really interested.. Thanks again..

Another thing... have you watched the movie undisputed 2? What do you call the art practiced by Boyca?

[N.B]

Originally Posted by Drimascus

Capoeira is "played" in a game called a "roda". The object of this game is not to best your opponent by pummeling them to dust, but to display your technique with precision and flow, keeping the game moving.

Even though Capoeira isn't necessarily suited for combat, there are some nasty and brutal techniques in Capoeira that don't exist in any other martial art. However, these techniques never connect because of the very nature of Capoeira in which the object of the game is to keep the dance going. The Escorpianado, in which you roll up onto a handstand, and snap back forward with your legs, is designed to crush your opponent's leg or back as they're sweeping. Of course, this technique is never performed in a roda because it would effectively end the dance. Other effective techniques include the the S-dobrado, armada, parafuso, and mariposa.

Here is some of the post I think you are refering to (sorry if you were not). I don't think any of the moves described in this post are very effective at all. They are very brutal if they connect but not very effective in a street situation. Escorpiao only crushes the opponents leg if they are sweeping. I doubt anyone on the street is going to try a Capoeira sweep on you.
The other moves described are mainly stylish moves which have no place on the street, I mean, mariposa is basically a butterfly kick.

Actually, the armada is a exception of this, becuase it is (in my opinion) a very effective kick (even though it does leave you blind for a split second, because it is in essence a spin kick), and it is performed in the roda a lot. A move adapted from other martial arts I'm guessing, since I've never seen it used in a Angola game, I could be wrong though.

I'm not trying to put Capoeira down, I just don't want anyone to have any false pretences. This all said, it does give you such an incredible amount of strength when you get really good. My instructors instructor has been doing Capoeira for about 20 years now, and I swear he could put his foot through Chuck Norris.

[beibitoi]

Thanks for sharing that N.B. And also, thanks for not getting mad. Someone from the other site got mad with my questions. I'm sorry about it.. I just have to ask those questions to avoid confusions.

Anyway, in case it is possible to practice 2 martial arts at the same time, what would it be? I really want to learn capoeira..

[N.B]

Originally Posted by beibitoi

If that's the case, is it possible to learn 2 different martial arts at the same time? Say, Capoeira and other art? If it's possible, what other art would you recommend? What martial art would possibly fit with capoeira? If possible, something that i can use effectively even without have a huge muscles... Since I am medium built..

Sorry to post again so soon, didn't know you posted until after I posted. Yeah, go for it you'll have some great fun. Let us know how it's going.
As for another martial art. Hmmm, it depends. If you want to do something to help with the Capoeira, I'd suggest a martial art like Taekwondo or Kickboxing. Although I've heard that the combination of Capoeira and Tang Soo Do is the most effective martial arts combination on the planet and can let you destroy people with your mind!
But if you want self defence it sounds like the perfect martial art for you is some form of Jujitsu. I cannot recommend it enough, I think it is fantastic for self defence. And any person big or small, fat or thin can do it. In fact, my Tang Soo Do instructor stopped doing it because he wasn't getting any fitter doing it since fitness wasn't too much of a requirement! Then again, he said he was a fairly athletic guy anyway (used to do Capoeira Angola as well, probably why).

[beibitoi]

Thanks again N.B.. I will make a research about that. That i posted that fast is just a proof that I am really interested. Your help won't be wasted.. Thanks...

Need more suggestions.. Please.. Thanks guys...

[Chapel]

Personally I would recommend only starting one style at a time. Once you get really comfortable with it (2 or 3 years in, at the very least) start a second one.

N.B, that was the post I was talking about. Good job digging it up. Somehow from the way I remembered him talking I thought that the moves were a lot more effective. Oh well. I do, however, think that the movements would confuse a trained fighter, but probably not the random thug.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

good luck on the capoiera training. i tried it once but i dont have the rhythym for it.

for self defense applications it depends on the school. when i was in job corps some of my friends from florida are capoieristas.

sometimes we'd get into brawls an they used to whoop some behinds with thier skills. thats why i dont doubt its effectiveness in self defense cause ive seen it in action

so my take is that my friends came from a real good school.


last week at my tkd school we had a new guy who came to class. hes a bb in bujutsu, ke?po, an also does capoiera

for a guy who weighs 290-something pounds he sure can move lol.
if i see him again ill ask him more about self defense applications. he only showed up once to class

[N.B]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

for self defense applications it depends on the school. when i was in job corps some of my friends from florida are capoieristas.
sometimes we'd get into brawls an they used to whoop some behinds with thier skills. thats why i dont doubt its effectiveness in self defense cause ive seen it in action
so my take is that my friends came from a real good school.

I go to a good school. If they don't teach self defence it doesn't make it a bad school. If they teach you to play Capoeira well, that makes it a good school. I have never, ever, ever, ever heard of a Capoeira school that shows how to use Capoeira in a self defence situation. Edit: Sorry, I've just remembered one in London which teaches self defence, but it's boxing style self defence and looks nothing like Capoeira.

Really? I doubt very much they were using proper Capoeira, just a few kicks or takedowns. Don't get me wrong, I've seen my instructor play a very brutal game with one of his most experenced students, it looked more like kickboxing than anything else (although he used to do Muay Thai as well). And I swear, if the student hadn't been quick enough he would have been mullered. It would have been very effective on the street, but if I was to try half the things my instructor did I would not succeed because while he is tall and stocky, I am quite sort and skinny. I would have those kicks shrugged off.

Now maybe in 7 years time I'll be able to kick butt on the street with Capoeira. But for now I'd rather take the knowleadge from my whole 3 lessons of Muay Thai which I took a while ago, than my whole 5 months of experence of Capoeira.
Now Capoeira is great for speed, reactions, reflexes, endrurance and strength and has made me a better fighter, but trust me, there are some much better martial arts out there for self defence.

[Shinobi_Kokujin]

ohh they were using capoiera all right...lol

im not familiar with the proper terms but they were doin the dance kinda with the twirls an spins....going down low an sweeping

thats the best way i can describe it cause i dont know the proper terms....they didnt do no overly fancy stuff like flippin in the air spin kicking someone like eddie gordo from tekken.

but they had the familiar roda rhythym and movements.

[N.B]

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin

ohh they were using capoiera all right...lol

im not familiar with the proper terms but they were doin the dance kinda with the twirls an spins....going down low an sweeping

And they were using these movements in a street/bar fight against someone?

@beibitoi: Don't worry about the questions mate, ask away, we're all willing to help here.