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I kinda fail to see the point of the weapon. In both sets of drills the attackers aren't even trying to hit her (they are purposefully missing by long shots) and she doesn't really seem to be blocking anything. How is the fan a useful weapon in this case?
You know, I think you have hit a good point Chapel. This a great example of either
1: Martial Dance
2: Wishful thinking or;
3: Bullshido
However a fan made of iron is quite a different story. They are great weapons. I know because I sparred with a lass who used one and she gave me an inflamed wrist for a week.
If fact, I want one now... Where can I get one? Hmm..
You are right Chapel, they are not going full speed, this is practice with the weapon early on. There are safety issues to consider. Eventually, this is not shown in the video, the two would strike harder and faster and would not pull their strikes unless she happens to miss the defense. The fan is metal ribbed and weighs more than the sticks they are holding.
I find it fascinating that what people want and expect from youtube is reality or something "real". Do you have videos that show what you think would be "real"?
And many also comment that what we do is dance? Do you also consider capoiera dance? Why or why not? Just because a movement looks like it could be also seen as a dance move, could it also be used as a martial arts move? Obviously many dance kicks and sweeps could be translated into some very deadly blows.
Lastly, if in the video they went full speed and didn't pull strikes and in turn if she hit harder with the fan, do you think the techniques would work? Why or why not?
I'm just trying to understand where people are coming from in terms of their interpretation of the video. For the most part, comments run along the lines of simply saying it's bull****, but either not posting an example of what is not bullshido as it were, or not being specific about what about it, is bullshido. I have always found even in the worst videos there is something to learn, some element of truth in what they are doing, perhaps not for me, but certainly for them in terms of why they practice in this way.
What are people's parameters of what makes good technique? Is it based on your own pre-set ideas based on the martial arts you found yourself good at? If a technique that is done on you, doesn't work, so you don't believe it, is it simply the technique or the execution of the technique by the other person?
I doubt any of us has changed the way we viewed martial arts simply based on a video without first going out and confirming what we saw with a physical experience. But maybe that's me, whether it's a class, seminar or video, I'm constantly asking myself how could a technique be better be improved, in what situations might it work, what aspects of the technique might actually work. Coming from a background in writing critique, it's truly hard to write completely bad writing as it is to write truly great writing, so in my mind, I can't completely dismiss any video because there is always something to learn.
You are right Chapel, they are not going full speed, this is practice with the weapon early on. There are safety issues to consider. Eventually, this is not shown in the video, the two would strike harder and faster and would not pull their strikes unless she happens to miss the defense. The fan is metal ribbed and weighs more than the sticks they are holding.
Although I do realize that this is practice and they aren't going in trying to hurt each other I didn't see a single point when she used her weapon to defend. More it seems like she was only using the fan as a distraction while she dodges around to the outside. Of he strike.
I find it fascinating that what people want and expect from youtube is reality or something "real". Do you have videos that show what you think would be "real"?
Perhaps, but can the iron fan be used effectively on the street? And is it used like it is in the video? Or is it involved in blocking?
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Ah, Steven Seagull, I bet nobody's thought of that before.
Actually, this looked like a Tai Chi kind of thing to me. (I haven't seen much in the way of Kali, so I can't judge its veracity in that art). She was actually using the fan. She would use free hand to push attacking limb while putting fan between body and stick, then follow up with a tap from the fan, usually to the body. Numerous light strikes, which is what would be necessary if a person is holding a traditional (read: not made out of a solid piece of iron) fan.
Definitely dance, and very stylized, but I don't think the combat value of the exercise has been lost.
Edit: And, as a side note, I'm guessing she's still pretty early on in her training, as she didn't quite seem comfortable with the fan (had problems flipping it open and closed, etc...). This may also make it difficult to see the efficacy of her attacks and defenses, as they are not yet polished.
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"I don't have the knack of victory at all times. I have only learned how not to miss the right moment." Kenshin Uesugi
"If you confer only with people in your own circle (relatives and friends), their opinions will naturally favor you, rendering them useless." Tsunetomo Yamamoto
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change."
Thich Nhat Hanh
Ok, but using the free hand to block is just a regular block the fan had nothing to do with it. This is my primary concern here. I get how you can strike someone with the fan, but I don't see her blocking anything.
If any one pulled out a fan on me i would be sure to stick around and kick their ass, its such a waist to hold a fan, if you hold a fan, then u cant use that hand to punch or fight in any way, a fan can possibly scratch someone, but thats the worst it can do. In martial arts the fan is purely used to show skill in demonstrations and is not intended for fighting with.
If any one pulled out a fan on me i would be sure to stick around and kick their ass, its such a waist to hold a fan, if you hold a fan, then u cant use that hand to punch or fight in any way, a fan can possibly scratch someone, but thats the worst it can do. In martial arts the fan is purely used to show skill in demonstrations and is not intended for fighting with.
I do like some of the moves however!
The fan isn't just used for demos it can be a very effective weapon when intent is put behind it.
Just a few uses would be to strike pressure points on the body from further away when the fan is folded up. Second battle fans are usually made with a bright tough piece of material that could confuse an attacker and draw their attention...not to mention if someone pulled a fan to defend themselves in the street in this day and age the attacker would be like WTF!!! long enough for you to beat the crap out of them ten times over.
Ok, but using the free hand to block is just a regular block the fan had nothing to do with it. This is my primary concern here. I get how you can strike someone with the fan, but I don't see her blocking anything.
She was keeping her fan between her body and her opponent. You don't want a bamboo fan to be the primary blocking mechanism, because it will break. That doesn't mean you can't keep it in the way as a backup block. Plus, blocking with the hand keeps the fan open for a followup strike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intercepting fist
If any one pulled out a fan on me i would be sure to stick around and kick their ass, its such a waist to hold a fan, if you hold a fan, then u cant use that hand to punch or fight in any way, a fan can possibly scratch someone, but thats the worst it can do. In martial arts the fan is purely used to show skill in demonstrations and is not intended for fighting with.
Not true. Samurai learned to use fans as weapons specifically because it was one of the only objects they could carry anywhere, even in the presence of the emperor. Some carried regular fans, some carried reinforced fans capable of blocking a sword.
The real attacks with a bamboo fan are the jabs, the lateral strikes are feints. When striking with the end of the fan, the full force of the strike is focused into a tiny, solid area. As Little Dragon said, great for striking nerve clusters (or the neck).
I'd hold the fan a little different than the video, but I can assure you that, if someone disregarded the fan and the hand holding it as threats, that person would regret it.
__________________
"I don't have the knack of victory at all times. I have only learned how not to miss the right moment." Kenshin Uesugi
"If you confer only with people in your own circle (relatives and friends), their opinions will naturally favor you, rendering them useless." Tsunetomo Yamamoto
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change."
Thich Nhat Hanh
Kamatuuran Kalijin Video: Fan defense
"Your Kung Fu is not strong!"
long enough for you to beat the crap out of them ten times over.
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