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Philosophical DiscussionDo you have a philosophical view to martial arts styles, training, etc. ?
The Apostle Paul used many sports analogies in the New Testament. One he used was of a boxer practising shadow boxing. I wont go into his point , but it is interesting to note that he would not have used combative sports as an example if there were somthing inherently wrong with the sport.
Not always the case, as it is the zealots of religions who overcome others easily sueded.
Hmm, it seems such people need to exercise some God given free will. Although when you say zealots, who do you mean?
I know two guys, both Christian, with contasting views about martial arts. The one who believe martial arts are a sin is my old R.E (religious education) teacher, although don't think because of this he is a very strict right wing sort of fellow, he isn't.
The other person is my Jitsu mate who (funnily enough) believe that the study of martial arts isn't a sin and neither is the jusified use of them.
Here is a little example (because I like telling stories ) about how they jutify each of there beliefs using the same part of the bible.
The passage goes something like this:
'...And Jesus did see that the people was gambling inside a church, and it did make him rather miffed, and he did shout: "oi, you lot, get lost and take your card shufflers with you", and the people in the temple laughed at Jesus, which made him even more cross. He opened up a can of holy wup-ass, and proceded to smite the gamblers about the face in a way not since the prophet C.Norris in 32 B.C...he also gave the tables a right trashing'
I pretty sure it went something like that, my memory is a bit hazy. By the way, don't mind my interpretation if you are of religious disposition, I mean no offense to Jesus who I'm sure is generally a lovely chap.
Anyway, the guy who is against martial arts says this:
"Any form of fighting is wrong, Jesus sinned when he let his anger get a hold of him, which is why sortly thereafter he was baptized, because he knew his mistake and wanted to be cleansed of it. The passage shows that God was sincere when he sent his son to earth as a mortal man rather than a deity, and thus as a mortal man, was imperfect and could make mistakes. This clearly shows fighting in wrong"
The guy for martial arts says:
"Jesus, acting upon the will of God, was justified in his attack on the men at the temple. Jesus was a perfect person who could not sin, he was only baptized after because he was such a great person he thought it only good and proper, not because he had to. The passage shows the Jesus, leading a perfect example, took jutified violent action against sinners. This clearly shows that fighting is right if it is justified"
I won't go into the argument 'what is justified fighting and what isn't.' I also won't go into the millions of counter arguments that exist for both sides of the story. I just thought the example was food for thought.
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Ah, Steven Seagull, I bet nobody's thought of that before.
Interesting thoughts. I have been accused of sinning for my involvment in MA. People got all hung up on the meditation aspect without undestanding it. Personally i think it goes to your intentions, if you train to inprove yourself physically and mentally i don't see a problem. However if you train so you can injure others foe the sake of it theh yes you sin. (my humble opinion). Also from my own experienses, punks don't usually last to long in MA.
Hmm, it seems such people need to exercise some God given free will. Although when you say zealots, who do you mean?
I know two guys, both Christian, with contasting views about martial arts. The one who believe martial arts are a sin is my old R.E (religious education) teacher, although don't think because of this he is a very strict right wing sort of fellow, he isn't.
The other person is my Jitsu mate who (funnily enough) believe that the study of martial arts isn't a sin and neither is the jusified use of them.
Here is a little example (because I like telling stories ) about how they jutify each of there beliefs using the same part of the bible.
The passage goes something like this:
'...And Jesus did see that the people was gambling inside a church, and it did make him rather miffed, and he did shout: "oi, you lot, get lost and take your card shufflers with you", and the people in the temple laughed at Jesus, which made him even more cross. He opened up a can of holy wup-ass, and proceded to smite the gamblers about the face in a way not since the prophet C.Norris in 32 B.C...he also gave the tables a right trashing'
I pretty sure it went something like that, my memory is a bit hazy. By the way, don't mind my interpretation if you are of religious disposition, I mean no offense to Jesus who I'm sure is generally a lovely chap.
Anyway, the guy who is against martial arts says this:
"Any form of fighting is wrong, Jesus sinned when he let his anger get a hold of him, which is why sortly thereafter he was baptized, because he knew his mistake and wanted to be cleansed of it. The passage shows that God was sincere when he sent his son to earth as a mortal man rather than a deity, and thus as a mortal man, was imperfect and could make mistakes. This clearly shows fighting in wrong"
The guy for martial arts says:
"Jesus, acting upon the will of God, was justified in his attack on the men at the temple. Jesus was a perfect person who could not sin, he was only baptized after because he was such a great person he thought it only good and proper, not because he had to. The passage shows the Jesus, leading a perfect example, took jutified violent action against sinners. This clearly shows that fighting is right if it is justified"
I won't go into the argument 'what is justified fighting and what isn't.' I also won't go into the millions of counter arguments that exist for both sides of the story. I just thought the example was food for thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarmike71
Interesting thoughts. I have been accused of sinning for my involvment in MA. People got all hung up on the meditation aspect without undestanding it. Personally i think it goes to your intentions, if you train to inprove yourself physically and mentally i don't see a problem. However if you train so you can injure others foe the sake of it theh yes you sin. (my humble opinion). Also from my own experienses, punks don't usually last to long in MA.
Well....I'm new on this board...but...One of our instructors did a full write up on religeon and the martial arts. I'm not about to type the whole thing in on here...It would give me cramps. LOL But...To say that Jesus sinned and/or was out of line is in direct contradiction to the Bible and everything it teaches. The Bible teaches that Jesus was without sin. In fact, all three entities, the father, son, and the holy spirit are free from sin. Jesus was the only person to ever roam this huge rock in space who was perfect and without sin.
Ok...Now...off my soap box...Christianity is not a religeon of people who simply lay over and give up easily. IN MY OPINION...Martial arts is VERY christian. We are to protect ourselves and our families and our Christian beliefs. There are people out there who would try to make you believe that Christianity teaches to simply be passive and compliant. This is FALSE. Christianity has a VIOLENT past....Just as islam has a violent past. I don't feel that Christianity teaches us to be passive...or to lay over and just take whatever is dished out to us. Tolerant yes, but 100% acceptant? Nope.
Well....I'm new on this board...but...One of our instructors did a full write up on religeon and the martial arts. I'm not about to type the whole thing in on here...It would give me cramps. LOL But...To say that Jesus sinned and/or was out of line is in direct contradiction to the Bible and everything it teaches. The Bible teaches that Jesus was without sin. In fact, all three entities, the father, son, and the holy spirit are free from sin. Jesus was the only person to ever roam this huge rock in space who was perfect and without sin.
Ok...Now...off my soap box...Christianity is not a religeon of people who simply lay over and give up easily. IN MY OPINION...Martial arts is VERY christian. We are to protect ourselves and our families and our Christian beliefs. There are people out there who would try to make you believe that Christianity teaches to simply be passive and compliant. This is FALSE. Christianity has a VIOLENT past....Just as islam has a violent past. I don't feel that Christianity teaches us to be passive...or to lay over and just take whatever is dished out to us. Tolerant yes, but 100% acceptant? Nope.
First off, welcome aboard.
Second, thanks for the post.
Third, go ahead and post/thread/link your instructor's write up.
Fourth, as with any subject there are those in favor and those who oppose. Each camp can cite/find passage, info, on the subject.
Third, go ahead and post/thread/link your instructor's write up.
I will in a while. It will take me some digging to dredge it up again. Then I'll have to type it and enter it into the computer. I should have done this years ago anyway, but I never did. So, I guess it's time to get busy eh? LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47MartialMan
Fourth, as with any subject there are those in favor and those who oppose. Each camp can cite/find passage, info, on the subject.
And that's what I like about martial arts related forums. MOST of the time, the people are mature about it. Most of the time anyway. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47MartialMan
Fifth, how can there truly a "Christian Karate"?
Well, this guy thinks so: LaSalas Dojo - Karate for Christ Ministries I also think that the two can be in synch. However, I do not integrate it into my teachings at the dojo as he does. I do know him and consider him as a personal friend though.
Well, this guy thinks so: LaSalas Dojo - Karate for Christ Ministries I also think that the two can be in synch. However, I do not integrate it into my teachings at the dojo as he does. I do know him and consider him as a personal friend though.
Thanks for the link.
In your opinion, do you think many followers of religions tend to be biased towards martial arts, because of the misconceptions of it being spawned from religion(s), OR is it that these people do not want it to "compete" with their own beleifs/congregation?
47MartiaMan,
I don't know. In MY OPINION, I think that too many people are misinformed about the martial arts. I think it is really up to the instructor as to what "religeon" he/she wants to profes. I am open about my being a Christian, yet I don't preach it in the dojo. I don't make students learn bible verses. I teach Karate. That is my job, and it's what I'm good at. I don't know all the answers in the bible, and readily let people know that.
At my dojo, we DO have a "mat chat" at the end of the kids classes. I usually go over things such as never giving up in a fight or trying to AVOID fights all together. I also go over bullying and it's consequences or ways around it.
So, I really don't want to make a general statement about all followers of religeons and their personal beliefs. I know of only a few religeons which have overt violent tendancies. So the majority of them may simply see the martial arts as violent based because it is, in essence, fighting. Allbeit fighting to DEFEND one's self or something that one may love or value. And that "fighting" is violent, and is typicaly against what most religeons preach, which is tolerance.
47MartiaMan,
I don't know. In MY OPINION, I think that too many people are misinformed about the martial arts. I think it is really up to the instructor as to what "religeon" he/she wants to profes. I am open about my being a Christian, yet I don't preach it in the dojo. I don't make students learn bible verses. I teach Karate. That is my job, and it's what I'm good at. I don't know all the answers in the bible, and readily let people know that.
At my dojo, we DO have a "mat chat" at the end of the kids classes. I usually go over things such as never giving up in a fight or trying to AVOID fights all together. I also go over bullying and it's consequences or ways around it.
So, I really don't want to make a general statement about all followers of religeons and their personal beliefs. I know of only a few religeons which have overt violent tendancies. So the majority of them may simply see the martial arts as violent based because it is, in essence, fighting. Allbeit fighting to DEFEND one's self or something that one may love or value. And that "fighting" is violent, and is typicaly against what most religeons preach, which is tolerance.
Did my ramblings make sense?
First, I thought your post was grand and not a ramble.
Second, I wasn't trying to have you speak ill of a relgion or its followers, of no type in particular.
Third, so I guess you may think/concluc=de that the talk of religion is not to be over-emphasized in the dojo, or the work place?
is Martial arts a sin
) about how they jutify each of there beliefs using the same part of the bible.
Then I'll have to type it and enter it into the computer. I should have done this years ago anyway, but I never did. So, I guess it's time to get busy eh? LOL 
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