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Philosophical DiscussionDo you have a philosophical view to martial arts styles, training, etc. ?
Humanity. Is it a quality of being humane, or the condition of being human?
On Humanity; “We are truly the most ridiculous of creatures on the planet, think about it. We assume that just because someone or something has flaws we don't like that it is totally worthless…”
Speaking of human nature, I find it peculiar that people would go out on a limb to point flaws and not truly understand the meaning of things. Pointing out flaws is not to be misconstrued with constructive criticism, or looking for someone to stay true to convictions, or pointing out something which may not seem sensible in many assessments. () I tend to post in opposition and/or controversially. Some may take this as trolling; I look at it as advocatus diaboli, Latin for “devil’s advocate”. (This term is incorrectly use and is a misnomer like Kung Fu). I use such controversy, or opposition to stimulate a person’s certitude, or conviction. I want to read their post, which are their views, opinions, or beliefs. Therefore, I view their posts as worthy, even though I may disagree with some.
The arrogance of a martial artist lies within the nature of humans. All humans’ posses a degree of arrogance. People have to find credence tangible to their steadfast ideals. Strange how people have credible posts when they are with those steadfast ideals of others. But once in opposition, those who were praised, or favored credible posts from that same someone, result to slander, name calling, denigration, and become incredulous.
As with many of my threads and posts, some people may have not have had a problem with those posts within their own credence and steadfast ideals. MMA is in likeness of Cardio Kickboxing. () When the subject of what I had studied surfaced, it surfaced from my post/view of MMA, not within their steadfast ideals. Therefore, I took such request of my experience, as a means to look for flaws with malice.
The association of someone with another, that someone else may not favor, will change such favorable disposition that were on previous or other posts from that person, now out of favor. In other words, they didn’t have a problem with a certain person other posts, until they posted an association with an unfavorable person, like Ashida Kim.
Everyone can say what they like about Ashida Kim and even I for agreeing with some of what he has said and finding value in allot of it. Thing is I'm a very trusting person. I trust thieves to steal from me, liars to lie to me and my friends to betray me. So far I haven't been disappointed...
Say, for example, if someone had trained or had been associated with Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, George Dillman, (which I have a friend/mod on another forum does), Steven Segal, the 139th Abbot of Shaolin Kung Fu, Donald Duck, whoever, or whatever. This “whatever” would pertain to age-youth, experience-or lack of, culture, etc. Does this mean they are less of a martial artist, or that their post is less valuable then someone who had trained with Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Chuck Liddell, Mickey Mouse, etc.?
I don’t see how someone’s post has any bearing from such associations provided the post has some conviction. A post is an opinion, or view, having a degree of belief and all are duly and respectfully noted. For someone to state that they lost respect for another, based upon a post not in favor, would seem to be unconscionable and that such a statement of lost respect seem dumbfounded.
Because if I have experience and knowledge and what he says reinforces that same set of facts, I can know what is truth and what isn't. So he lies, any one who tells they never told a lie is lying, right. Basic common sense, anyone who walks up and tells me he can disappear at will is crazy right? Until they show you how the magicians do it, then they are geniuses.
Yes, one would say that integrity, honor, truth, etc., are good character, and these all are virtues of a martial artist. However, in the definition of martial arts, I did not see/read about these virtues therein.
The reason allot a traditional martial arts included philosophy (which expressed psychological principles), because fighting methods are not enough when dealing with people. Truly alive training, deals not only with sparring and techniques but with understanding how and why you are doing what you are doing. Alive training means growing and adapting principles, building your own methodology. There is more to self-defense then throwing punches or choking out an attacker...
When it comes down to posts, or a serious street confrontation, “Who Cares If Bruce Springsteen Is A Shodoshi?” – (or one trained/associated with him)
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
You argue with no one 47MM, I choose not to engage you in your endeavor to:
- Never answer a question with anything other than a question
- Pick fights you won't finish
- Philosophize things that don't need philosophy to solve
- Turn a Martial Arts forum into a Pyshco-babble forum
Your trolling ways have been called out by me and a few others and you have been unmasked. It's understandable that that upsets you and your petty attempts to backfire with philosophical babble that doesn't even apply or make sense won't work.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,963
Home Country:
47MM, many of your post are general and as such are fine coming from anyone with any experience and judged on thier own merit, just as you say. However, many post you have referenced your training and teaching. In this case your post's merit are based upon your training and experience because you referenced them as back-up for your posts. Then you play the role of old buzzard/mysterious old man/devil's advocate, which by its very nature will lead people to ask, "where does this guy come from?" When you refuse to answer the question of your experience/training, it does lead to questions about your legitamacy and your reputation, whether you believe it should or not. Your refusal to list your experience, in my opinion, means as much as whatever experience you would list.
Through your post you have made yourself out to be a certain thing. When you are challenged on the experience needed to make that certain thing you will not answer the challenge. That cast doubt on what you claim to be...and before you say you never claimed to be anything, your post say different. Please post your experience. It will end a bunch of this controversy and not effect you in any many, unless the experience you have is nothing to what you have put forth in your post.
Do I care if The Boss is a Shodoshi? Not at all, unless he gives me advice as if he's a Shodoshi and turns out to be a white sash/belt. Then he's just a wanna-be who lied to me by the inference of his experience.
Do belts/sashs mean anything? Depends entirely upon what school you are in. My sifu rank means something because I had to fight and suffer to get it and keep it. My rank in Wing Chun also means something because I was was tested under full contact conditions to achieve it. I know Joe and Triangle are tested in the same manner so thiers should mean something as well. Those belts/sashes represent a lot of blood ( literally ), sweat, tears, and accomplishments. If its a buy a belt school, then no, it doesn't mean much. I'm sure as a black belt you know this and I am hoping that your question was just food for thought.
By the way, just as info, I believe the newest disciple of Shaolin is 34th generation and the Abbot is 31st generation
This is actually a good discussion but please keep it clean and civilized.
My opinion on belt is somewhere in between - it should matter in some sense especially from martial arts organizations that's governed very tightly and do not hand out belts for the commercialization. It's definitely an honor and well deserved accomplishments. In some sense, it doesn't matter because ultimately, your skill depends on how much you practiced and how good you are. If you find yourself in an undesirable situation, does your attacker care what your belt is or where you got your belt? Probably not.
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,963
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by complete
This is actually a good discussion but please keep it clean and civilized.
My opinion on belt is somewhere in between - it should matter in some sense especially from martial arts organizations that's governed very tightly and do not hand out belts for the commercialization. It's definitely an honor and well deserved accomplishments. In some sense, it doesn't matter because ultimately, your skill depends on how much you practiced and how good you are. If you find yourself in an undesirable situation, does your attacker care what your belt is or where you got your belt? Probably not.
I definitley agree on what you say about belts. Belts should mean something to the practitioner, as a symbol of the effort put into achieving the belt. That why I say a buy-a-belt system it wouldn't mean nearly as much. When it comes time for confrontation, a belt/sash doesn't mean anything, only the skills you posess and maybe to some degree luck.
This is actually a good discussion but please keep it clean and civilized.
My opinion on belt is somewhere in between - it should matter in some sense especially from martial arts organizations that's governed very tightly and do not hand out belts for the commercialization. It's definitely an honor and well deserved accomplishments. In some sense, it doesn't matter because ultimately, your skill depends on how much you practiced and how good you are. If you find yourself in an undesirable situation, does your attacker care what your belt is or where you got your belt? Probably not.
47MM is just upset because he is used to spouting off some rhetoric and having inexperienced, young people think he's a genius. Me...I'm not impressed with words. I'm impressed with action and I just want to hear some examples of his actions. Tell us who you are, what your experience is and watch how much respect he will get from me if he deserves it.
As for the belt...it's a symbol and that's it. I judge a person's abilities by their skills on the mats where it matters. If 47MM were to come pay me a friendly visit and subsequently wipe the mats with me then I would be the first to shake his hand and tell everyone how bad ass the guy is.
Belt or not.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
47MM, many of your post are general and as such are fine coming from anyone with any experience and judged on thier own merit, just as you say. However, many post you have referenced your training and teaching. In this case your post's merit are based upon your training and experience because you referenced them as back-up for your posts. Then you play the role of old buzzard/mysterious old man/devil's advocate, which by its very nature will lead people to ask, "where does this guy come from?" When you refuse to answer the question of your experience/training, it does lead to questions about your legitamacy and your reputation, whether you believe it should or not. Your refusal to list your experience, in my opinion, means as much as whatever experience you would list.
Through your post you have made yourself out to be a certain thing. When you are challenged on the experience needed to make that certain thing you will not answer the challenge. That cast doubt on what you claim to be...and before you say you never claimed to be anything, your post say different. Please post your experience. It will end a bunch of this controversy and not effect you in any many, unless the experience you have is nothing to what you have put forth in your post.
Do I care if The Boss is a Shodoshi? Not at all, unless he gives me advice as if he's a Shodoshi and turns out to be a white sash/belt. Then he's just a wanna-be who lied to me by the inference of his experience.
Do belts/sashs mean anything? Depends entirely upon what school you are in. My sifu rank means something because I had to fight and suffer to get it and keep it. My rank in Wing Chun also means something because I was was tested under full contact conditions to achieve it. I know Joe and Triangle are tested in the same manner so thiers should mean something as well. Those belts/sashes represent a lot of blood ( literally ), sweat, tears, and accomplishments. If its a buy a belt school, then no, it doesn't mean much. I'm sure as a black belt you know this and I am hoping that your question was just food for thought.
By the way, just as info, I believe the newest disciple of Shaolin is 34th generation and the Abbot is 31st generation
I think you missed some of the points of the thread's message.
It isn't that I don't want to list my experiences...it is that I won't, unless under conditions....my right. My conviction.
To ask in the sense of spite, I will not answer. Strange, if you or anyone was that much curious, you or anyone, should have PMed me long ago on this. (Though many others had)
So the issue, isnt about me stating my experiences, as much as it is to put the label of "troll" on me.
Please go back and thoroughly re-read this thread. Many hidden words. Many hidden meanings. Many "curve balls" or distractions.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Interesting thread. It's funny how a confrontation on one thread has bled through to at least four or five others and spawned the creation of at least two new threads. That alone says something about the value of credibility on this forum.
As for belts, they are just pieces of cloth to tie around your waist. In the end, it is only the quality of your training and the conviction by which you approach that training that really matters. In the past I have trained with 'black belts' who I knew couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag, and I told them, "You'd better think hard about wearing that belt and then not being serious about your training and the execution of your techniques because one day somebody is going to call you out just to see if they can beat up a black belt."
__________________ "An eye for an eye only blinds the world." - Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
"Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa
47MM is just upset because he is used to spouting off some rhetoric and having inexperienced, young people think he's a genius. Me...I'm not impressed with words. I'm impressed with action and I just want to hear some examples of his actions. Tell us who you are, what your experience is and watch how much respect he will get from me if he deserves it.
As for the belt...it's a symbol and that's it. I judge a person's abilities by their skills on the mats where it matters. If 47MM were to come pay me a friendly visit and subsequently wipe the mats with me then I would be the first to shake his hand and tell everyone how bad ass the guy is.
Belt or not.
LOL, YOU are the one who is upset judging by:
Wrong.
Conviction to a cause does not make your cause right nor does it make your opinion right.
Who you train under absolutely legitimizes your rank. If you train under a fraud, regardless of how good you actually are...your rank means nothing.
Nothing.
If I had been given a Brown Belt in BJJ by someone who was not a legitimate Black Belt, I AM NOT A BROWN BELT IN BJJ.
I would need to start again under someone else.
This is how Martial Arts works, and thank God it does.
Thank God Martial Arts is one of the few things left in life that offers some integrity and honor to it's practice.
Thank God Martial Arts separates the talkers from the doers.
Thank God Martial Arts demands from me that I can do what I say I can do and I had better be able to prove it.
Thank God Martial Arts puts confidense in a person not from false ego but because they learn to believe in themselves and their abilities.
Please quit trying to turn what I hold so dear to my heart into something cheap and without honor.
That has no place in what I consider to be Martial Arts.
- Never answer a question with anything other than a question
- Pick fights you won't finish
- Philosophize things that don't need philosophy to solve
- Turn a Martial Arts forum into a Pyshco-babble forum
Your trolling ways have been called out by me and a few others and you have been unmasked. It's understandable that that upsets you and your petty attempts to backfire with philosophical babble that doesn't even apply or make sense won't work
If you are not impressed by words, why post yours here? Why not stay in you little BJJ world and not come on a forum in the first place? You will get not action here.
Respect. I am not looking for respect. And definately just because someone holds rank, it is not a automatic from of respect.
I judge a person's abilities by their skills on the mats where it matters.
You contradict yourself. Because you are also looking to judge me by my list of whom/where/rank I have.
The more you post, the more I realise how little you understand this thread.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
Interesting thread. It's funny how a confrontation on one thread has bled through to at least four or five others and spawned the creation of at least two new threads. That alone says something about the value of credibility on this forum.
As for belts, they are just pieces of cloth to tie around your waist. In the end, it is only the quality of your training and the conviction by which you approach that training that really matters. In the past I have trained with 'black belts' who I knew couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag, and I told them, "You'd better think hard about wearing that belt and then not being serious about your training and the execution of your techniques because one day somebody is going to call you out just to see if they can beat up a black belt."
Therefore, this supports another reason why I should not have to list my training.......thank you
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
If you are not impressed by words, why post yours here? Why not stay in you little BJJ world and not come on a forum in the first place? You will get not action here.
Respect. I am not looking for respect. And definately just because someone holds rank, it is not a automatic from of respect.
I judge a person's abilities by their skills on the mats where it matters.
You contradict yourself. Because you are also looking to judge me by my list of whom/where/rank I have.
The more you post, the more I realise how little you understand this thread.
*sigh*
You still don't get me 47MM, not at all. I'm really not trying to understand your threads that you have even admitted is full of "curve balls". I realize that you believe yourself to be a wise old sage who's job it is to come on forums and educate the masses and stimulate thoughts. But this is a Martial Arts forum my friend. The rest of us want to discuss Martial Arts.
So...related to that subject....what exactly can you offer in terms of a discussion about Martial Arts?
Got anything?
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
Interesting thread. It's funny how a confrontation on one thread has bled through to at least four or five others and spawned the creation of at least two new threads. That alone says something about the value of credibility on this forum.
As for belts, they are just pieces of cloth to tie around your waist. In the end, it is only the quality of your training and the conviction by which you approach that training that really matters. In the past I have trained with 'black belts' who I knew couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag, and I told them, "You'd better think hard about wearing that belt and then not being serious about your training and the execution of your techniques because one day somebody is going to call you out just to see if they can beat up a black belt."
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47MartialMan
Therefore, this supports another reason why I should not have to list my training.......thank you
How so? My post supports nothing but my opinion that a rank is only as valuable as the quality of training and personal convictions of the person wearing it.
Please don't try to hide behind my words.
__________________ "An eye for an eye only blinds the world." - Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
"Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa
“Who Cares If Bruce Springsteen Is A Shodoshi?”
