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Philosophical DiscussionDo you have a philosophical view to martial arts styles, training, etc. ?
i just spent the morning watching videos on no punch chi knockouts, and supposedly visible chi balls, that looked more like a reflection of skill in photo shop than skill in martial arts. now it is obvious to me that these are corruptions of the idea of chi, and made to give people the idea that they have magical powers. with that in mind i pose my question;
What the hell is chi?
i really want to know what chi is and what bearing it has on the martial arts. for the record i have opinions on chi, but i don't know if i am even close to understanding what chi is. i believe that chi must have an important place in the study of martial arts, as i hear talk of it come up in classes all the time. i feel like i must be missing the boat here, and hope someone will throw me a line. what is chi? how do i get in touch with it (if i can)? what will it do for my martial arts (if anything at all)?
You're gonna get a reaaal division here. A lot of the TMA guys(Not all) will say that it does exist and all, and it plays a vital part in some martial arts, Tai Chi etc. And whereas some people(like me) will be pessimistic and not accept it because they have never felt it.
Chi is the concept of "Universal Energy" which is predominate in Chinese philosophy. It's a metaphysical concept dealing with life energy, the idea being all living things have chi.
Many believe that this energy can be manipulated and even harnessed. For many Chinese Martial Arts, the idea is to learn to channel your chi to be stronger, quicker, harder through meditation, concentrations, etc..
My experience has been that a good armlock seems to work regardless of how strong a person's chi supposedly is!
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
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Over nearly 20 years in Chinese martial arts I've heard all kinds of explanations. Here is the one I accept the most... chi is the electromagnetic energy in the body and as Joe said, all living being have this. Some people can manipulate this energy to some extent. However, it is pure fantasy that people can use this energy to blast people with chi balls or no touch knock outs.
As far as getting chi or getting in touch with it, I wouldn't worry about it unless you would like to start studying the Chinese internal arts or homeopathic medicine. Concentrate more on good living and correct martial training and that will benefit you more than chasing chi.
Over nearly 20 years in Chinese martial arts I've heard all kinds of explanations. Here is the one I accept the most... chi is the electromagnetic energy in the body and as Joe said, all living being have this. Some people can manipulate this energy to some extent. However, it is pure fantasy that people can use this energy to blast people with chi balls or no touch knock outs.
As far as getting chi or getting in touch with it, I wouldn't worry about it unless you would like to start studying the Chinese internal arts or homeopathic medicine. Concentrate more on good living and correct martial training and that will benefit you more than chasing chi.
As one of the foremost residential CMA dudes on board, how much do you dabble in 'Chi'?
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,762
Home Country:
You'd have to define "dabble" I used to have an instructor who was always going on about it, but could not reproduce any of the effects he claimed could be performed with chi. At that point I decided that while I could feel something others called chi, training to manipulate it was a waste of time. If it can be used to augment physical martial skills, it would require proper body structure and triangulation because energy must follow the laws of physics like everything else. Since these things I train anyway, focusing on the chi side of it would be a waste of training focus. If you know anything about Wing Chun, then you know complete efficency is a major goal so focusing on something that might or might not help you fighting is not within that goal.
You'd have to define "dabble" I used to have an instructor who was always going on about it, but could not reproduce any of the effects he claimed could be performed with chi. At that point I decided that while I could feel something others called chi, training to manipulate it was a waste of time. If it can be used to augment physical martial skills, it would require proper body structure and triangulation because energy must follow the laws of physics like everything else. Since these things I train anyway, focusing on the chi side of it would be a waste of training focus. If you know anything about Wing Chun, then you know complete efficency is a major goal so focusing on something that might or might not help you fighting is not within that goal.
Hmmm... There is a lot of fantastical crap that revolves around TV which throws Kung Fu in the bad end of myths. But I know not a lot of CMAs go into the octagon, but what's their excuse for not using chi in the ring? I mean, from what I've seen, you can balance yourself on spears, won't it help you in the ring? I mean at least one person musta used it to his advantages. If not, I'm doing it!
what i have learned on chi is that it is a catch word for the energy in your body, including but not limited to potential and kinetic energies. with this in mind, when a punch comes out of the pocket driven by the hip, and the shoulders fall into place just in time, with the locking of the body to stand rooted in the ground, and the shouted kiai contracts the abdominal muscles to add extra torque to strike, one could say that your chi (being the catch word for your perfectly timed use of kinetic energy) is in balance. this doesn't seem like any thing metaphysical to me but rather an application of scientific biology and physics. now this is just an example of my limited knowledge of chi, and i am wondering if i am even close to a small aspect of chi or if i am completely off the mark and just need to go and do some push ups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoddeBPM
Hmmm... There is a lot of fantastical crap that revolves around TV which throws Kung Fu in the bad end of myths. But I know not a lot of CMAs go into the octagon, but what's their excuse for not using chi in the ring? I mean, from what I've seen, you can balance yourself on spears, won't it help you in the ring? I mean at least one person musta used it to his advantages. If not, I'm doing it!
go look up "Kiai Master vs MMA" on youtube and all will be revealed
what i have learned on chi is that it is a catch word for the energy in your body, including but not limited to potential and kinetic energies. with this in mind, when a punch comes out of the pocket driven by the hip, and the shoulders fall into place just in time, with the locking of the body to stand rooted in the ground, and the shouted kiai contracts the abdominal muscles to add extra torque to strike, one could say that your chi (being the catch word for your perfectly timed use of kinetic energy) is in balance. this doesn't seem like any thing metaphysical to me but rather an application of scientific biology and physics. now this is just an example of my limited knowledge of chi, and i am wondering if i am even close to a small aspect of chi or if i am completely off the mark and just need to go and do some push ups.
Unless you're interested in dabbling with a spiritual martial arts, I suggest the push ups. But when you got something so debatable as 'chi', I guess no matter how many opinions you get on it, you really have to feel it.
Unless you're interested in dabbling with a spiritual martial arts, I suggest the push ups. But when you got something so debatable as 'chi', I guess no matter how many opinions you get on it, you really have to feel it.
chi just seems to be such a talked about subject in TMA's that i thought it warranted some exploration.
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoddeBPM
Hmmm... There is a lot of fantastical crap that revolves around TV which throws Kung Fu in the bad end of myths. But I know not a lot of CMAs go into the octagon, but what's their excuse for not using chi in the ring? I mean, from what I've seen, you can balance yourself on spears, won't it help you in the ring? I mean at least one person musta used it to his advantages. If not, I'm doing it!
I have heard this as well, but it is not following the Chinese idea of chi.
There were a few kung fu guys in the first few UFC. While they did not win, even getting to the the televised event was an accomplishment.
Godde, chi isn't going to make a difference in a match. To do so, it would have to be able to do some things I have called fantasy. Also, chi is supposed to increase when people are physically active, have adrenaline released, or have endorphines released. Seems both fighters would have this, so the chi would be cancelled out, in thoery. Even if chi knockouts and similiar exsisted, no MMA guy would say "Hey, I got knocked out by his supurior chi! What was I supposed to do?!"
I'll say it before someone else says it. "Chi is something that can't be explained by modern science." In terms of how the arguments are phrased, this puts chi training into the same boat as religious ritual.
i have seen those, and realise that that is just fluff, but i thought there might be something behind it.
All that is really behind it is legend and myth.
That being said, healing with this stuff in mind works pretty well as a reduction of mental stress and relaxation techniques allow the body to heal faster. Not to mention long term health benefits from controlling breathing on blood pressure. In that case, if calling it chi helps you, I say go for it because at the very worst that happens to you is that you waste a few hours of your life meditating. (Try Chi attacks on the street and you could get killed due to false confidence.)
Questions about chi
I used to have an instructor who was always going on about it, but could not reproduce any of the effects he claimed could be performed with chi. At that point I decided that while I could feel something others called chi, training to manipulate it was a waste of time. If it can be used to augment physical martial skills, it would require proper body structure and triangulation because energy must follow the laws of physics like everything else. Since these things I train anyway, focusing on the chi side of it would be a waste of training focus. If you know anything about Wing Chun, then you know complete efficency is a major goal so focusing on something that might or might not help you fighting is not within that goal.
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